Would you have caved in & used a pick?

[Wasnex]

I'd like to hear some opinions from fellow bassists on whether it matters to you that a bassist uses a pick in a cover band when the original bassist recorded with a pick.

To start at the end, I've washed my hands of the mainly 90's cover band I played bass in. The reason stemmed from me not wanting to use a pick because I found the tone that I, like all of us, have sought after.

Okay, so I was in a cover, not tribute band. I feel that gives me more liberties to not have the exact tone as the original bands.

The guitarist & singer argued that we don't play songs that we used to like In Bloom, Killing in the Name, or Song 2 because me picking with my fingers makes the songs "sound like s#&t" even though they take liberties of their own in the music. When I tell them that they & the 2 purist musicians in the audience are the only people that will care that the tone isn't exactly like the original recording.

Ultimately, I decided to leave the band after hanging out the other night for the first time since the lockdown started because of things like being told that my knowledge is inferior to the guitarist because of his master's degree in music. Also that I'm ignorant to what the music needs to be & sound like. There's plenty more drunkardly trash talking & belittling of my abilities that I won't get into. I will however say that for over an hour of this argument, I was literally not able to finish a single point I was trying to make before getting interrupted.

I know this was long winded, but with all the BS aside, what are your opinions on using a pick or fingers in a situation like this?

I am primarily a finger style player but I use slap and pick when it serves the song. Some songs I remember using a pick on: Green Day "Basket Case", Roxette "She's Got the Look", Guns N' Roses "Sweet Child of Mine". There are plenty of songs that were originally played with a pick where I don't think it would make much difference, but "Basket Case" and "Sweet Child of Mine" are pretty obviously played with a pick, and I wanted to try and capture the sound and feel of the original since we were doing a record lift. "She's Got the Look" was actually played on snyth bass, but I think using pick best captures the feel of the original.

Hard to say who is right or wrong in your situation. What is clear is the band is not the right fit for you because you and the other musicians don't share the same goals and vision. So you should view leaving the group as a positive.

Good luck!

 

[ClusterFlux]

I'd like to hear some opinions from fellow bassists on whether it matters to you that a bassist uses a pick in a cover band when the original bassist recorded with a pick.

Tribute band yes. Cover band that tries to be faithful, yes. Doing a few covers with a band that otherwise does originals, lol no.

Or: If there is a well-defined band leader who is cutting the checks, and you are OK with that, then adjusting your tone or using different playing methods is part of the job.

To start at the end, I've washed my hands of the mainly 90's cover band I played bass in. The reason stemmed from me not wanting to use a pick because I found the tone that I, like all of us, have sought after.

Okay, but... If that tone doesn't suit the music, that could be an issue. The perfect Motown tone is not a good fit for a Melvins song.

If the tone is appropriate, and the tunes you're doing all night are in the same genre, I don't see a problem with a consistent tone. There's plenty of live performances where the bassist uses pretty much one tone throughout (or mostly varies tone just with their right hand technique). I'd also say a lot of grunge bands in particular rejected that kind of preciousness and precision.

Of course, unless you plan to cover Mudhoney tunes for the rest of your musical career, then you'll need to figure out how to produce different tones. But that's a different question than the degree to which you want to sound like the original in a cover band.

The guitarist & singer argued that we don't play songs that we used to like In Bloom, Killing in the Name, or Song 2 because me picking with my fingers makes the songs "sound like s#&t" even though they take liberties of their own in the music.

Well, we obviously can't judge that. But it sounds like they lost confidence in how well you fit with the band, and expressed it in an immature way.

Welcome to working with musicians. Isn't it fun?

 

[Manticore]

I can play with a pick, but vastly prefer playing with fingers. I've not run into anything played with a pick by the original player that can't be played with fingers. Fingers also provide a wider range of tones relative to a pick; the sharp attack of a pick is easily attained with fingers if one switches from the pad of the finger to the nail. In my opinion, playing a bass with a pick to make it sound better is really similar to putting high heals on an elephant to make it walk better.

The foregoing notwithstanding, if the cat writing the check wants me to use a pick I will do so without argument or fanfare.

None of this is terribly relevant when consider the personalities involved. Life is too short to put up with someone else's negative behavior. Move on and don't look back.

 

[Phormlyss]

Given the details of the overall band dynamic I think you were right to leave.
In general I think most material can be done justice with either fingers or a pick and the audience generally won't notice, but if one or the other is integral to the sound of a song it's worth switching.

With regard to insisting on using your holy-grail tone all the time though that gave me pause, lets admit that there's a certain degree of flexibility that's necessary to function as a gigging musician. If your tone is great in four venues but sounds like booming mud in the fifth it's time to admit that, at least for tonight, your baby is ugly and changes need to be made. Sometimes someone else in your band is going to notice the problem before you do. Do what needs to be done to sound good in the venue, do what needs to be done to serve the song.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Really? I bet it does not sound like crap.

So your saying that if you were playing a song with a pick, and then you decided you weren't going to use a pick anymore, and everyone in the band was telling you that song needs a pick. It sounds like crap when "you" play it with your fingers. You would just cop attitude and quit the band? Because it sounds much better "your way"?

 

[Chad Michael]

fingers
pick
thump / pluck (slap)

Get comfortable with each if you really want to be a reputable cover band bassist. Whining gets you nowhere.

 

[Butch Bobcat]

It probably does sound like crap without a pick. You just can't see that because "you've found your holy tone." Your tone and style needs to change along with every style and genre your are playing. Bass is very important. Its also very influential. if the bass doesnt sound right, nothing sounds right. Your stubbornness has now ended a nice friendship and yet another music group. Oh well, live and learn. If you don't, the next group will do the same thing.

I respect your opinion & do agree that bass is very important, tone included. I also know that I'm too stubborn for my own good at times & that in some situations, you are absolutely correct. If I had pulled the same stuff off not using a pick, I would be the @$$ & should be fired.

I am however not a fan of being demanded to do something & having the double standard of the others not have to adhere to that, especially in a situation where we only made $100 at most & I was the only sober person at the end of the night, equating to me being the only one able to play & sing their parts correctly. That was okay to them.

I know. I left a lot of details of this band out so you all didn't get the full perspective & if even knowing the spectrum of the inner workings, you'd still feel that way, I still respect your opinion even if we disagree.

 

[LBS-bass]

Some tracks really do demand it. I don't mind being outside my comfort zone as it goes, it teaches you a lot I've found, especially about yourself. An audience won't really pick up on things consciously, but subconsciously they know it somehow feels different.

Yep. As someone who almost exclusively plays fingerstyle, the few songs where I really feel I need to use a pick have drawn me outside my comfort zone and that makes me a better player. But I'm not Geddy Lee and I wouldn't presume to tell someone of that caliber what their best choices are.

 

[Butch Bobcat]

Well does it sound better playing with a pick? I play 70% fingers, 30% pick. I’d be willing to try any song with the other method if a bandmate thought it would improve the song. I think certain things definitely sound better or at least more natural based on whether you’re using one or the other.

Personally, I don't think that the particular songs that they complained about sound better with a pick. I did however use a pick when we used to play Welcome to Paradise & Anything Anything(per their request for this one) until we dropped those 2 songs because I felt that it hurt the integrity of those tunes playing them with my fingers.

 

[Butch Bobcat]

For most of the bass playing part of my life, I used the 2 or 3 finger method. I always just felt more connected to my bass. Then I had an opportunity to do something really different, start a tribute band, but the bass player in the band we portray uses a pick exclusively. I decided to bite the bullet and start using a pick. Two years on, I feel like I have a good technique, plus I'm very comfortable using picks. Just another tool in the old toolbox is the way I look at it. Plus, while I could dial in a decent grindy tone with fingers, using a pick takes it to a new level.

Yeah, if I was in a Nirvana tribute band or a hired fun in a well paid band, I'd absolutely use a pick without question.

 

[arbiterusa]

I play fretless in a cover band. Your bandmates would probably stroke out over that.

 

[Ric5]

I can play faster and cleaner with a pick and I can palm mute and get that Carol Kaye bass tone, and finger playing opens up a lot of possibilities as well … I am not a big fan of slap … it often gets you into a rhythmic trap.

John Wetton was a famous fingerstyle player but he developed wrist problems and switched to pick playing to relieve stress on the wrist. Also if you get finger tip problems like blisters or split skin a pick can get you thru a gig without bleeding on your bass.

 

[Butch Bobcat]

You played the whole gig with the same tone?

I have a 3 band EQ on my bass that I tweak for certain songs as well as several pedals including a drive and fuzz pedal to change tone & aggressiveness of the sound.

 

[Ric5]

Whenever a band micromanages the bass player … they will lose that bass player

 

[Butch Bobcat]

You're assuming a lot thinking this is a bandleader who is getting gigs that pay well.

There is no designated BL. I actually booked about half the gigs & brought the most people out to shows.

 

[Butch Bobcat]

I play fretless in a cover band. Your bandmates would probably stroke out over that.

I actually prefer using a fretless, but that, I know, won't work tonally.

 

[Butch Bobcat]

I used more often when I had bad hair. But if you're in a band with A-holes you don't really need a reason to take your bassin' self to a better place. Life's too short to play with people who don't reck-o-nize what they got.
But there are a handful of pretty cool players who pick, right? Plus there are a couple tones that really don't come from fingers in that angsty genre. I wouldn't want some D.B. guitarist telling me I had to use a pick but I've always got a handful in my case when needed. Likewise, some pretty awesome guitarists don't use picks. So does that mean Derek Trucks and Lemmy Kilmister are doppelgangers? Can't say for sure, never seen them in the same place. You be you. And if You doesn't want to use a pick that's cool. But ya'know they make tort picks.

Hahaha I would absolutely play a Motorhead tune with a pick. To me, it wouldn't sound right without it.

 

[DrMole]

I'd like to hear some opinions from fellow bassists on whether it matters to you that a bassist uses a pick in a cover band when the original bassist recorded with a pick.

To start at the end, I've washed my hands of the mainly 90's cover band I played bass in. The reason stemmed from me not wanting to use a pick because I found the tone that I, like all of us, have sought after.

Okay, so I was in a cover, not tribute band. I feel that gives me more liberties to not have the exact tone as the original bands.

The guitarist & singer argued that we don't play songs that we used to like In Bloom, Killing in the Name, or Song 2 because me picking with my fingers makes the songs "sound like s#&t" even though they take liberties of their own in the music. When I tell them that they & the 2 purist musicians in the audience are the only people that will care that the tone isn't exactly like the original recording.

Ultimately, I decided to leave the band after hanging out the other night for the first time since the lockdown started because of things like being told that my knowledge is inferior to the guitarist because of his master's degree in music. Also that I'm ignorant to what the music needs to be & sound like. There's plenty more drunkardly trash talking & belittling of my abilities that I won't get into. I will however say that for over an hour of this argument, I was literally not able to finish a single point I was trying to make before getting interrupted.

I know this was long winded, but with all the BS aside, what are your opinions on using a pick or fingers in a situation like this?

This is about more than a pick or fingers.

If you can get pick-like tone sans plectrum; shouldn't be an issue. Sounds like conforming to their
ideas as to the sound is the only way to please your bandmates. If you have considered compromise and don' t feel your tone detracts from the song then there is no common ground.

Personally, use a pick when needed but prefer fingerstyle.

Again, sounds like pick or no pick is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Butch Bobcat]

I am not very good with a pick. Some songs I manage better than others. Sometimes, instead of playing with a pick, I will adjust my finger attack, play closer to the bridge, and turn up the treble a bit. It's not the same, but I figure I'm better to be able to stay in the groove than play inconsistently with a pick. I recognize playing with a pick is something I have to work on, but I will try to adjust my tone as best I can to suit the song. Not necessarily to sound the same as the song, but what I think sounds best with the rest of the band in our version of the song.

Can the guitar player play Fleetwood Mac with his fingers like Lindsey Buckingham, who does not use a pick on guitar?

To get a more aggressive sound, I do bring my fingers closer to the bridge as well as use a little drive to add bite to my tone.

 

[Butch Bobcat]

Does he play with his fingers?

He struggles at picking with his fingers. I've actually shown him some classical guitar techniques to help him improve.

We have also not added a few songs to our set simply because the guitar part is played finger style & he can't play them up to par.