I see what you mean... pretty much the same way you learned your erroneous views about it.
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Would you play a gig with a Confederate Flag?
- Thread starter troy mcclure
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DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
Welcome back twofingers! You've been missed.
(light hearted comical post, please no freakouts)
I agree with you. However, a clarification: the "stars and bars" is not what most people call the "confederate flag". The "stars and bars" was the official flag of the C.S.A., and it is hardly ever seen today. 95% of the public would not recognize it if they saw it. I'd be very surprised if you saw one in a biker bar, or any bar for that matter. It died with the confederacy and is really only displayed in museums these days.
The flag most people refer to as the "confederate flag" today is actually the confederate battle flag (not the official flag), which flew in battle when blood was spilled... not when the political rhetoric was flying. It's a symbol of fighting spirit and pride, given that many southerners were proud at having fought so well in battle despite long odds and in face of superior numbers and resources.
The fact that most people don't actually know the difference and yet still claim to be offended about it is telling of their historical literacy.
Nailed it. "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it."
To my knowledge, displaying the CSA battle flag has not been classified as hate speech. Proprietor is free to hang it in his bar, but I'm also free to not take the gig, or even set foot in the bar.
Seriously people, aside from possibly a handful of redneck zealots, I strongly doubt that anyone who displays the stars and bars is advocating slavery. The symbolism associated with a given object typically changes with time and society.
The band should have the freedom to hang their banner behind them while they play also. That is being denied because that flag is just too important to the bar owner. Obviously he is making a statement with it that is important to him so the question is do they want to assist him in making that statement? I wrote "obviously" because why else would he be so adamant about the band not hanging their banner?
Hopkins
Commercial User
After a bit of research, you are right. The Confederates had 3 national flags, and none of them are what is usually associated with a Confederate flag, although two are similar. As a fan of history I appreciate the lesson.
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If I agreed to a gig and showed up to play and saw a confederate flag hanging in the place, I'd keep my commitment, but with serious trepidation. I'd just play the set I promised to play and high tail it out of there immediately afterwards and hope that nothing bad happened in between.
Hopkins
Commercial User
To answer the question in the OP, I would absolutely not play that venue as I would not want my band at all associated with that flag. I also would probably not even want to visit that venue because of that flag. I know the flag in and of itself is not inherently racist. But the vast majority of the people that this flag represents are very much racist.
As others have mentioned, a video of your band playing in front of that back drop could put an unwanted and undeserved stereotype on your band. No way I would play it.
As others have mentioned, a video of your band playing in front of that back drop could put an unwanted and undeserved stereotype on your band. No way I would play it.
Jive did. He was raising a hypothetical situation - to which I responded likewise. Didn't you even read what he wrote, before you went off on me? :scowl:
I can assure you that swearing at me will accomplish nothing positive, that's for sure.
MM
If it's just a one off thing, I wouldn't say your band is associating with the credo of that flag. If you're playing a lot of places that have it, then it might be a good idea to reconsider the venues or the geographical location at which you're choosing to play.
The band shouldn't have any freedom or right to hang their banner in front of the flag. The bar is a private establishment and the bar owner has the right as the owner to deny the right to hang anything in front of the flag. The bar owner is inviting the band in to play. The band can accept the gig or refuse the gig. Again, that is their freedom and choice to do either. But their right to hang their banner? You're 100% wrong. They have no right to cover the flag whatsoever, again because it is a private establishment. Now, if this was a public place, then it would be a different story.
A VERY small minority. I live in redneck central and most of us are quite willing to accept anyone of any color. Racist, mostly not. Homophobic, on the other hand...
I swear all the time. It flows out of my mouth like water.Jive did. He was raising a hypothetical situation - to which I responded likewise. Didn't you even read what he wrote, before you went off on me? :scowl:
I can assure you that swearing at me will accomplish nothing positive, that's for sure.
MM
Ever? I can assure you, I've spent a significant amount of time in the South. Been there, done that.
This has nothing to do with stereotyping. That's a complete red herring. My remarks are based on some pretty extensive experience & observation of the feelings and opinions of people of color, with whom I've spoken and with whom I've interacted over a period of many years. I've never met a single one who's not uneasy about the Confederate flag.
MM
Hopkins
Commercial User
I live in the south and I have never met anyone flying a Rebel flag who would be ashamed at all to use any racial slur that came to their mind. They may not be a part of the KKK or participated in any hate crimes, but they are still racist.
Well, he did say "not always," which doesn't usually mean "never".
Ever? I can assure you, I've spent a significant amount of time in the South. Been there, done that.
This has nothing to do with stereotyping. That's a complete red herring. My remarks are based on some pretty extensive experience & observation of the feelings and opinions of people of color, with whom I've spoken and with whom I've interacted over a period of many years. I've never met a single one who's not uneasy about the Confederate flag.
MM
Yes, one of the greatest things about America is that everyone has the right to be exactly what he or she wishes to be. Even if they are a completely offensive idiot.
There are however many laws that prohibit the types of behaviors and practices that support slavery, abuse of human rights, physical aggression, lynching, and most of the other types of behavior that were supported by the confederacy and represented by their flag.
There are however many laws that prohibit the types of behaviors and practices that support slavery, abuse of human rights, physical aggression, lynching, and most of the other types of behavior that were supported by the confederacy and represented by their flag.
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