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Double Bass Wounded gut string dried out

bassbuddie

bassbuddie

Jan 8, 2003
229
2
53
Montreal
www.francoisbrisson.com
#1
I have Gamut Lyon wounded E and A, and Varnished G and D. I started to have a weird buzz 2 days ago. I went to my luthier to check this out and we realized that the buzz was coming from the string. The gut dried out, creating a loose between the gut core and the winding on the A and E string. Can someone help me with this? is there a way to fix them?

François
 
#2
Yes. Send it to Dan Larson at Gamut Strings and ask him to rewind the strings. He removes the old windings and puts new ones on. It costs $47 per string but you'll have almost brand new strings when you get them back. It only took a few days to get them back when I had mine done. I just put my A back on a little over a week ago. It took about 3 days for the string to settle and sound like it had been on weeks. It's really a great deal.

mark
 
#6
I wouldn't bother trying this with a high-class (ie expensive) string like a Gamut...especially when you can just get it rewound.
But, I did have some success rejuvenating a wound Lenzner E. The winters here are *very* dry - so ultimately it was a bad choice for a string anyway.
What I did was put the string in a smallish Tupperware container with small piece of damp sponge inside with it, and left it somewhere warm (on top of my television or my computer monitor, if I remember correctly) for a few days. The core did swell up enough for the windings to tighten.
The drawbacks to this method are: a) you're left without a string if you've got no backup, and b) the winding can get a bit messed up when you remove it from the bass. That latter I managed to fix by carefully tweaking it with a smooth flat pair of mini pliers once I had it back on the bass. It was a very delicate process - I used a combination of squeezing and twisting with the wrap direction to get everything back in line. It worked pretty well.
I'm also not 100% certain that this all had a permanent effect. I suppose it could be useful if you're traveling with your bass, and you're someplace dry for a short period and need an emergency fix. It's not something I'd ever try to keep a string going through another entire winter here though.
 
#7
I had some buzzing on both the wound E and A of my Dlugolecki set recently. Any time the windings hang up on the nut or the bridge it puts stress on the windings too. It's important to relieve as much tension as possible so I started there by loosening the strings and making sure they weren't hanging up... plenty of #2 pencil! Next there was a thread recently about steel core strings being twisted and producing weird overtones and buzzes. The suggestion was to untwist the strings. So I thought I would try it...

One at a time I slackened the strings just enough to ease the knot out of the tailpiece. I never unwound them from the pegs. Both strings were twisted about 3 complete turns. When I relieved this tension, reinstalled the strings and brought them back to tension the buzzing mostly was gone.
The weather has also turned wet and that did the rest. No more buzzing. As always YMMV, FWIW, my $.02, etc...

One more thing. During all of this I am rehearsing a lot for an upcoming recording project so I scratch recorded the bass to see what it sounded like to everyone else. The string buzz is MUCH more noticeable to the player than anyone else. No one I played with noticed and I couldn't hear it on most of my scratch recordings. No one on a gig would ever hear it.

-J
 
#9
Phil Rowan said:
Man, all this talk about Gamut is starting to tempt me..
Click to expand...

hehehehehehe.... :D

I remember when I was peeking over that fence from the other side. It wasn't that long ago.... but I've knocked off the rear view mirrors. The unwound Lyons are hands down the best jazz pizz strings for my purposes... no contest. I'm looking forward to going whole hog (err... sheep casings :hmm:) at some point this year, full set. Really looking forward to trying the Pistoy D string.

Phil, I know you already are in the pool. Anyone who starts their "influences" roster with the great Dennis Irwin has already tasted the koolaid.

That whole rewinding policy that Gamut offers makes it a pretty good scenario I think.
 
#10
I see a lot of war battled guts in my area and have done some amazing bring back to life scenarios.

When they are all dried out and hard, that is a great time to go over the exterior- clip any stray hairs, if there are any unwinding issues, I'll often wick in a tiny bit of Jet brand ultra thin viscosity CA glue with the tip of a toothpick or paper clip. It has incredible capilary action and I've never had an issue with it afetr everything is tensioned back up. Next, wrap the string with a bit of 220 grit wet / dry sandpaper and work over any high / low spots, continue with 400 and finally 800 grit sandpaper- the idea is to smooth out the surface, not take major amounts of material off. Next, wrap the string with steel wool and generally buff it to a nice polish. That completes the exterior. Then, wipe them down with walnut oil- Spectrum brand is my favorite- the type you find in the baking section of your local fancy yuppie grocery store- make sure you DON'T get the type with the vitamine E added as a preservative; it gets a bit funny over time. I currently have a Red-O-Ray that is about 30+ years old for my D string that was brought back to life this way and sounds fantastic.

A lot of folks will tell you to use mineral oil ( I don't care for petrolium products against the fingerboard), or olive oil. Walnut oil is a hardening oil, which is my preference for french polishing and use on the strings. It dries out and hardens, rather than staying soft and oily on the string.

For the other side of the conversation, I've got a customer who swears by soaking his guts in a ziplock bag of olive oil for a couple of weeks at a time. His strings tend to be the most supple that I've ever experienced, but the also swell up the size of a cigarette, break pretty fast, and stretch like mad....

j.
 
#11
Man, I've been sipping on that Kool Aid since day 1 (day 1 being my first of many lessons w/Dennis back in the fall of '00.. of many back to back Mondays spent at the Vanguard.. man, how miss that cat).

Okay, where were we.. yeah, my Red-O-Ray D might be on its way out, and the Artone G I think still has some life left. Both have been on there about a year solid.. I have a Eudoxa D and G I snagged for a good price on here that can tide me over while I save up, I guess. The Lyon G looks very intriguing, and I'm not exactly sure about the D (based on pictures they look kinda thick, and on my Kay that's usually not the best.. the reviews make 'em pretty tempting too though.. and I have gotten away w/ using a Chorda E).

And just so this isn't a total thread derail (sorry about that).. I'd probably just go for the re-winding process they offer. A bit cheaper than buying new strings, and from Mark's experience it sounds like it does the trick pretty well.
 
#12
Phil Rowan said:
The Lyon G looks very intriguing, and I'm not exactly sure about the D
Click to expand...

I think it's a matter of taste, I love the Lyon G and D. The first time i tried them, I was not sure about the D string, it sounded dead to me, I was playing spirocore at that time and I was used to the sound of them. I went to Eudoxa and now the whole Gamut set and I love the D and the G. I have to say that I had to learn how to play on Gut. I used to love the E and A too, but not for now ;)
 
#13
Phil Rowan said:
...The Lyon G looks very intriguing, and I'm not exactly sure about the D (based on pictures they look kinda thick, and on my Kay that's usually not the best.. the reviews make 'em pretty tempting too though.. and I have gotten away w/ using a Chorda E).

And just so this isn't a total thread derail (sorry about that).. I'd probably just go for the re-winding process they offer. A bit cheaper than buying new strings, and from Mark's experience it sounds like it does the trick pretty well.
Click to expand...

If you like your D with a strong center to the note, try the Gamut Pistoy D. I prefer light gauge, not because of ease of playing (they're already ridiculously easy to play coming from Mittels) but it seems to have a more centered pitch than the thicker ones. If you like your D a little more fat and round, go with a Lyon (or a heavier gauge). They are both great strings; the differences are a matter of preference.

I started using a light D when I read about the Carlos Chorda set. The D in that set is about the same thickness as the Gamut light D. I went from a medium Lyon (which is currently on Marcus's bass) to a light Lyon D and noticed the pitch was slightly more centered or defined. I later tried the Pistoy light D and it was even more so. The more centered pitch helps IMMENSELY if you are trying to play melodically (or melodies for that matter) in thumb position and want to use the D string instead running up and down the G string. The light Pistoy D sounds very much like a lower pitch medium Lyon G.

I've only had my A and E rewound once but it was a major success as far as I'm concerned. Since the gut had already stretched once, the break in on the rewound string was amazingly fast. It sounded a little iffy when I first put it on but within a couple of hours it was pretty much fully stretched out and sounding really good. By the end of about 3 days it was fully broken in and sounding great. I'm still using a Garbo E so the rewound E is still sitting on the shelf. I'm actually really digging the Garbo E. When the Garbo E eventually bites it, I'll put the Gamut E on.

mark
 
#14
Thanks Mark.. yeah, I've read a little bit about the whole Pistoy vs Lyon thing. When the time comes I think I'll go w/ the Pistoy light D because a centered tone would be ideal in this case (gut D's on my Kay can sometimes be a little too cloudy). I also kind of wonder how/if a Lyon G and Pistoy D would match w/ Spiro Solos for the E and A at all.
 
#15
I tried matching them to Mittels and hated them. I mean REALLY hated them. The timbre difference from the D to the A drove me buggy and the tension of the Spiros made the D and G too mushy. To be fair, I'm super picky about the A string. Even the Garbo A was a little too much metal for me although I'd use it again if I didn't have a wrapped Gamut A.

Solos are a lot lower in tension so they might not be so bad and they don't have that sizzly midrange of the Mittel which is a plus in this case. If it were me, I might use the Solo E in a pinch but I'd really want something else for the A.

Man, talk about a hijack. Sorry to the OP. This should really be on the other thread. Hopefully, we answered his question satisfactorily before the diversion.

mark
 

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