Double Bass Xlson mic w/ bass amp

[crd]

Does anyone have any experience using the Xlson mic with a bass amp?

I've happily used a realist for uhh, 15 years or so but would love to find a way to get rid of having something between my bass and bridge. I hate having a bunch of stuff hanging off my tailpiece etc so am looking to see if any of the many mics available now are actually useable in the context of a gig with a backline. I am not so concerned with bringing a mic for FOH cause that's there problem and most places these days have a DPA on hand, no muss no fuss.

 

[Ric Vice]

As with any microphone it will feedback, I’ve used live and for recordings since it’s a side address microphone only it has a very narrow pickup aperture.
that gives it more feedback resistance. It has a lovely warm sound and costs @$900.00 US. Their are lots of options ranging from the DPA 4099 Dvote
the new Neumann MCM 114, and the Nadine. Personally, I use the Remic DB5400 (Red) and it’s counterpart the Remic DB5400LB.

 

[Wasnex]

Does anyone have any experience using the Xlson mic with a bass amp?

I've happily used a realist for uhh, 15 years or so but would love to find a way to get rid of having something between my bass and bridge. I hate having a bunch of stuff hanging off my tailpiece etc so am looking to see if any of the many mics available now are actually useable in the context of a gig with a backline. I am not so concerned with bringing a mic for FOH cause that's there problem and most places these days have a DPA on hand, no muss no fuss.

@rickwolff has lot's of threads that include videos.

IMHO, If you need significant volume, stick with the realist or get a better contact pickup.

 

[crd]

@Ric Vice
Is that the Xls mic the attached photo? I haven't seen it attached like that before. An H-clamp seemed interesting to me as a way to finally have less weight on my instrument.

What does it sound like through your WW's? I've been curious how bass amps respond to mics.

I've also got my eye on a Ehrlund but may also just forget about changing anything in my set up and be happy with the realist.

 

[crd]

@rickwolff has lot's of threads that include videos.

IMHO, If you need significant volume, stick with the realist or get a better contact pickup.

Ha. Yes that might be the best answer. What's a better contact pickup in your opinion? I don't get along well with the sound of a full circle. I love that I can be as loud as I want with the realist and have adapted my playing to it at this point but definitely miss the way the upper range of my instrument sounds acoustically and the kind of attack I get acoustically.

Yeah, I checked those out. I am playing jazz but I didn't find those playing situations similar to what I am most often doing these days. Also, the clips I found with drums, the drummer was much quieter than some of the drummers I work with.

 

[Wasnex]

Ha. Yes that might be the best answer. What's a better contact pickup in your opinion? I don't get along well with the sound of a full circle. I love that I can be as loud as I want with the realist and have adapted my playing to it at this point but definitely miss the way the upper range of my instrument sounds acoustically and the kind of attack I get acoustically.

Yeah, I checked those out. I am playing jazz but I didn't find those playing situations similar to what I am most often doing these days. Also, the clips I found with drums, the drummer was much quieter than some of the drummers I work with.

Using a mic with a drummer tends to be problematic IMHO. Aside from low gain before feedback if you send the mic to your amp, the worst part is the cymbals can reflect off the bass back into the mic. In my experience the mic tends to pick up more cymbals than bass, and the sound of the cymbals tends to be flanged and very nasty sounding. If you try to roll off highs, then you no longer get a nice natural upright bass sound...So IMHO there is little point to using a mic live. The biggest problem is an upright has such low volume to begin with .


The most mic-like pickup I have any experience with is the Ehrlund EAP. This is piezo contact mic. You have to experiment to find a spot on the bass to provides good sound. The pickup is held in place with some sort of tack or putty.

EAP System - Ehrlund Microphones

Another contact pickup that people say sounds very mic-like is the Ischell. The Ischell is also a small contact pickup that is mounted with tack or putty, but it actually uses a small condenser mic.

Double bass pickups - ISCHELL

Neither is cheap, but both are less than the Xlson.

Neither is a silver bullet. Some people have tried both and it's mixed which is preferred. Some say the Ehrlund did not work on the bass, and some say the same about the Ischell.

 

[crd]

Using a mic with a drummer tends to be problematic IMHO. Aside from low gain before feedback if you send the mic to your amp, the worst part is the cymbals can reflect off the bass back into the mic. In my experience the mic tends to pick up more cymbals than bass, and the sound of the cymbals tends to be flanged and very nasty sounding. If you try to roll off highs, then you no longer get a nice natural upright bass sound...So IMHO there is little point to using a mic live. The biggest problem is an upright has such low volume to begin with .

Those are some of the issues. Some of the copy on the Xlson website interested me because it seemed to address some of these problems by tweaking the frequency response of the mic. I have no idea what differences these actually make in application. I am not playing at volumes where the house can't use a mic for the house sound. It would just be great to get a more acoustic sound from my rig and to get the realist off my bridge. I think I will give the Erhlund a shot.

 

[Ric Vice]

@Ric Vice
Is that the Xls mic the attached photo? I haven't seen it attached like that before. An H-clamp seemed interesting to me as a way to finally have less weight on my instrument.

What does it sound like through your WW's? I've been curious how bass amps respond to mics.

I've also got my eye on a Ehrlund but may also just forget about changing anything in my set up and be happy with the realist.

Sorry, no that’s not the Xlson that’s Nadine. Frankly, since the Xlson requires 48 v phantom power, I’ve only used it with the Grace Designs Felix.

My take (not the consensus among Xlson users) is the Explore Audio H Clamp is a royal PITA. On my flat back bass it slips off and the arm moves. You have to remove

and reinstall it for each gig because it won’t fit under my Reunion Blues padded case.

 

[Ric Vice]

I use the Ehrlund EAP and love the pickup, the qualification being the Ehrlund EAP has to love your bass. It’s expensive, and you have to have a preamp like the

Headway EDB-2 H.E., Grace Designs Felix, or alternatively the Ehrlund Preamp which works well but doesn’t give you much control over the EAP’s sonic palate.

i.e. Lo Cut filtering and Notch filtering. ,

 

[Ric Vice]

I use the Remic D5400 and D5400 LB it mounts easily under the fingerboard, bridge, or tailpiece.

 

[bassically_eli]

There's one more contact mic that I know of that hasn't been mentioned yet: the AKG C411. It's a very similar concept as the Ischell contact mic (i.e., a tiny electret that mounts to the surface with putty), except it's in a sealed enclosure. My impression is that being in a sealed enclosure makes it even more feedback proof. IIRC, it works with anything from 9V to 48V phantom power. It's also pretty affordable; under $200 new.

 

[bassically_eli]

Has anyone here ever tried placing foam around a mic to cut down on bleed from other sound sources? I've been playing with a guitar player recently who uses an electret in a block of foam velcroed to the top of his guitar. We just jam acoustically, so I have not heard it in action.

Also, he didn't give any reasons for mounting it this way, but my impression was that it is about convenience. The idea that it would provide some acoustic isolation is mine. I use a Prodipe electret with a gooseneck mounted under the string after lengths. For louder situations I place it right near the top of the bass of course, but that's not always enough of course. I wonder if it's worth a try to put a block of foam around the mic and butted up against the bass.

Hope that makes sense. My apologies for not being more concise.

 

[Ric Vice]

There's one more contact mic that I know of that hasn't been mentioned yet: the AKG C411. It's a very similar concept as the Ischell contact mic (i.e., a tiny electret that mounts to the surface with putty), except it's in a sealed enclosure. My impression is that being in a sealed enclosure makes it even more feedback proof. IIRC, it works with anything from 9V to 48V phantom power. It's also pretty affordable; under $200 new.

Just for clarification the Ehrlund EAP isn't a contact microphone, it's a really contact Piezo pickup. So, unlike the AKG, Ischell, et.al. it can get pretty loud. Of those three, the AKG C411 is the best for the price. IMHO

 

[bassically_eli]

Just for clarification the Ehrlund EAP isn't a contact microphone, it's a really contact Piezo pickup. So, unlike the AKG, Ischell, et.al. it can get pretty loud. Of those three, the AKG C411 is the best for the price. IMHO

I think the C411 and the EAP should be pretty comparable in terms of max volume. My impression of the C411 based on TB comments, is that it shouldn't feedback until the top of the bass is actually starting to feed back. Points to the EAP, though, for not needing phantom power.

I've had a C411 for a couple months now but have not really tested it out thoroughly. I did use it yesterday in a fairly loud big band rehearsal with the amp right behind my bass, and feedback was definitely not a problem.

 

[rickwolff]

. Frankly, since the Xlson requires 48 v phantom power, I’ve only used it with the Grace Designs Felix.

Actually, Ric, my Xlson mic works fine with the 12v phantom that my Genzler amp provides.

I think most of the 'usual suspects' have been mentioned above. My experience is that most of them work quite well and the choice would depend on the users bass, his/her personal taste, and budget.

 

[lurk]

Fwiw I have tried the C411 and didn't like it. Weird overtones, feedback prone, and generally ugly. I would like to try an Erlund one day. When they first arrived they were much cheaper and while I dithered the price went way up. I'm using a Tone Dexter on most gigs now and like it quite a bit. Much more mic like and not as honky as a piezo. I think it's a match -to-you and your bass thing. Mr. Wolfe seems to get a nice sound from his KNA. For me, it's maybe the worst pickup I've ever had.

 

[John Chambliss]

The only thing I don't like about the C411 PP is the long thin cable to the XLR. I do use some white putty that @rickwolff gave me which works better than the Blue Tack that I was previously using. YMMV

 

[Ric Vice]

I would like to try an Erlund one day. When they first arrived they were much cheaper and while I dithered the price went way up. I'm using a Tone Dexter on most gigs now and like it quite a bit. Much more mic like and not as honky as a piezo. I think it's a match -to-you and your bass thing. Mr. Wolfe seems to get a nice sound from his KNA. For me, it's maybe the worst pickup I've ever had.

That’s absolutely, true my opinion is that Ehrlund did themselves a real disservice in choosing a U.S. distributor that as I understand it, significantly marked up the wholesale price of the pickup overnight to their U.S. retailers. Since I’m not Ehrlund nor am I their U.S. Distributor I can’t speak for them, but it’s my belief that big price jump lost them many initial customers and continues to do so. Just my take. It’s not a pickup that you can just order off the shelf and assume it will give you the volume and sound you’re lookin for without testing it on your instrument first. That said, it sounds absolutely wonderful on my 5/8ths Mirecourt, our 3/4 Knilling, and my Kolstine Busetto Travel Bass. I have talked with Goran several times over the years, he’s a lovely person to deal with.

 

[crd]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I wish there were some more videos of the Xlson. I can't even seem to find a clip of Chuck Israels using it live. I think maybe they should think about rebranding it as the official @rickwolff due to all the helpful videos you've done. ( I did find a video of Chuck Israel's demoing a vary expensive Schertler amp that thankfully, I did not like the sound of My wallet let out a huge sigh of relief.)

I will give the Erhlund a-go and see how it works for me. Although I am still fantasizing about being the kind of PITA bass player who only brings a mic to a gig. I found an old video of myself doing an amp-less gig that I just love the sound of, even though I'm sure it was just an I-phone recording.

 

[bassically_eli]

The only thing I don't like about the C411 PP is the long thin cable to the XLR. I do use some white putty that @rickwolff gave me which works better than the Blue Tack that I was previously using. YMMV

Did you ever try the black putty that comes with the C411? If so, how does the white putty compare? I've tried both Blue Tack and the black stuff and had trouble getting a good sound with both.

I agree about the long, flimsy cable. It's not useful, just annoying.