Double Bass Yamaha Stagepas 200

[Lionel Albert]

Hi !

I would like to know if someone has ever tried a Yamaha Stagepas 200.
I'm asking because it looks interesting.
I wonder if it could be good for the double bass.
I use a Fishman Pro EQ so I was wondering if it was OK.
I'm playing in a jazz trio that can be loud (digital keyboard), and another that is more traditional (acoustic piano) that can become a quartet or a quintet (sax and/or trumpet).

I was thinking about it because I also play jazz guitar and keyboard.

I was hesitating between this and a PJB from BG 75 to BG 120.
There is a thread about all their models but I was scared to ask about PA combo system.

Thanks !

 

[Earl]

Hi !

I would like to know if someone has ever tried a Yamaha Stagepas 200.
I'm asking because it looks interesting.
I wonder if it could be good for the double bass.
I use a Fishman Pro EQ so I was wondering if it was OK.
I'm playing in a jazz trio that can be loud (digital keyboard), and another that is more traditional (acoustic piano) that can become a quartet or a quintet (sax and/or trumpet).

I was thinking about it because I also play jazz guitar and keyboard.

I was hesitating between this and a PJB from BG 75 to BG 120.
There is a thread about all their models but I was scared to ask about PA combo system.

Thanks !

For a powered speaker I like the QSC CP8. I think it sounds better than the Yamaha. Your preamp would work fine with it.

 

[Wasnex]

I think any cab that relies on a single 8" woofer is going to be very limited on headroom with double bass. It might work for relatively quiet trio situation, but I can't imagine it doing the job if significant amplification is required. I wouldn't buy a StagePas for double bass without trying it.

Specs

StagePas 200

I assume the 125dB is peak; so continuous SPL should be 119dB (-6dB)


CP8

My perception is most people who can make such a modest rig work tend to be mostly acoustic. The amp just fills out the sound a bit rather than making the bass louder. I am not that type of player as I tend to rely on my amp sound, rather than my acoustic sound.

The specs suggest the CP8 plays a bit lower, but has 1dB less headroom. However due to how double bass stresses a speaker with huge LF transients, I would not be surprise if the CP8 actually plays louder. Only one way to find out, try both.

I do like the StagePas packaging better for double bass. Also it can run off a battery pack. AFAIK StagePas 2000 BTR comes with the optional battery; StagePas 200 does not. The price difference is currently $85. The battery costs $168 if bought separately.

 

[turf3]

Those all-in-one PA systems are intended for vocals, announcements, quiet horns (like flute), acoustic guitar, and the like. For bass, you'll be a lot happier with an actual bass amp.

 

[Wasnex]

For bass, you'll be a lot happier with an actual bass amp.

This is not everyone's preference.

While I have concerns about the headroom available with small PA and/or acoustic amps, I actually prefer a full-range, HiFi sound to the sound of many bass amps. This is especially true when I am playing upright bass.

Given a choice between a StagePas 200, CP8, and ELF 1x8 combo. I don't think I would be happy with any of them except for very low volume gigs.

AFAIK, Peavey does not list the SPL, Sensitivity, or LF cutoff for the ELF line. The specs for the 8PR200 Faital driver in the ELF 8" combos suggest the PA options we are discussing may play louder. Calculated SPL for the ELF 1x8 at 130W and 95dB 1W/1m sensitivity is 122dB peak/116dB continuous.

 

[Lionel Albert]

For a powered speaker I like the QSC CP8. I think it sounds better than the Yamaha. Your preamp would work fine with it.

Thanks for the info !
Did you try it ?

 

[dylanjohnson]

I think any cab that relies on a single 8" woofer is going to be very limited on headroom with double bass. It might work for relatively quiet trio situation, but I can't imagine it doing the job if significant amplification is required. I wouldn't buy a StagePas for double bass without trying it.

Specs

StagePas 200
View attachment 7371579

I assume the 125dB is peak; so continuous SPL should be 119dB (-6dB)


CP8
View attachment 7371580

My perception is most people who can make such a modest rig work tend to be mostly acoustic. The amp just fills out the sound a bit rather than making the bass louder. I am not that type of player as I tend to rely on my amp sound, rather than my acoustic sound.

The specs suggest the CP8 plays a bit lower, but has 1dB less headroom. However due to how double bass stresses a speaker with huge LF transients, I would not be surprise if the CP8 actually plays louder. Only one way to find out, try both.

I do like the StagePas packaging better for double bass. Also it can run off a battery pack. AFAIK StagePas 2000 BTR comes with the optional battery; StagePas 200 does not. The price difference is currently $85. The battery costs $168 if bought separately.

I’m using @Jeff Genzler and @agedhorse designed Genz Shuttle combo with an 8 and it is filling loud clubs and large ballrooms. It can be done. I doubt Yamaha has this happening though.

 

[Clyde Stats]

I think any cab that relies on a single 8" woofer is going to be very limited on headroom with double bass

I used to think that also until I got one of Mike Arnopol’s MAS 18’s!

 

[Wasnex]

I’m using @Jeff Genzler and @agedhorse designed Genz Shuttle combo with an 8 and it is filling loud clubs and large ballrooms. It can be done. I doubt Yamaha has this happening though.

I used to think that also until I got one of Mike Arnopol’s MAS 18’s!

Those options may meet your needs just fine. I will remain doubtful they could meet mine until experience proves otherwise.


FYI:

I don't have specs for the MAS option, but I did dig up specs for the old STL3.0-8 combo

The STL3.0 Shuttle amp is rated 175W at 8 ohms and 300W at 4 ohms. Here are the specs for the Genz Benz STL8 extension cab. The cab is paired with the head to produce the combo.

Calculated SPL at 175W is ~117.4dB. FYI, actual SPL is usually a bit less due to power compression.

If you are happy with this level of performance, I totally accept it. I would find it acceptable for background music gigs, but not feature shows.

IME a rig rated for 118dB gets the job done most of the time, but I often found it frustrating due to insufficient headroom. Basically I had to limit my dynamic range and accept that I won't be able to hear quite as well as I want.

I look for rigs rated for 124dB minimum. Not always enough, but I am not willing to play much louder.

 

[Contrabenjista]

PA technology has improved vastly as has digital modeling, to the point where it really makes the most sense--even for guitarists-- to run everything through the PA.

Digital mixers are amazing these days, and can help with custom individual monitor mixes, and you can use IEMs or carefully placed monitors.

I like the QSC K12.2 because it can handle everything--bass, vocals, string sections--while sounding very natural. One can handle a small to medium gig, a pair can handle any gig up to the size where you'll have a sound crew with their own equipment.

 

[Happy Steve]

I am playing regularly through my QSC CP8 with vox, electric piano, sax (unamplified), electric guitar going through their own pair of CP8s. Most gigs are outside at the moment in front of cafes. The CP8 has plenty of low end for my tastes and I am never pushing it near it's limits.
My only gripe is the bump in the response at 300Hz which I now EQ out with my Tonedexter II.
The 'floor monitor' DSP setting in the CP8 is handy for managing floor coupling/bass increase when it sits on the ground, but it is usually off the ground and using the 'default' DSP setting.
I did play through a small Yamaha PA which had the amp in one of the (8"?) speakers a while ago. Not sure which model but it did quite a good job with my bass, gypsy guitars and voice, no keyboards. I think it was close to it's limits volume wise.

 

[loukash]

I would like to know if someone has ever tried a Yamaha Stagepas 200

It was briefly on my radar this summer while I was looking for a busking amp.
But multiple factors spoke against it so I haven't even attempted to test it: size, weight, available EQ options, battery being extra…

In the end, buying the EV Everse 8 was a no brainer. For my DB with a KNA/Gewa DB-1 piezo, it sounds just perfect. And LOUD!
In fact, I've been already using it as a complete "mini PA" with vocals, bluesharp, violin and acoustic guitar (all via Zoom AMS-44 as an additional 4-channel line/mic preamp), along an unamplified drum set.

I use a Fishman Pro EQ so I was wondering if it was OK.

I go then straight into the Everse 8 Hi-Z input, using a preset called "Percussion" plus a bit of EQ. Depending on the location, this can be adjusted further. The amp has additional global presets and EQs, in total I think a whopping 6 (!) stages to alter the sound.

I'm playing in a jazz trio that can be loud (digital keyboard), and another that is more traditional (acoustic piano) that can become a quartet or a quintet (sax and/or trumpet).

Me in a bluesrock trio with drums, a blues quartet with drums and guests, an afro-latin jazz septet with drums and percussion…
When there's a PA anyway, I use it as my monitor and go XLR out straight to FOH. Last Saturday was such a gig. Next one will be next Tuesday.

 

[Engle]

Hi !

I would like to know if someone has ever tried a Yamaha Stagepas 200.
I'm asking because it looks interesting.
I wonder if it could be good for the double bass.
I use a Fishman Pro EQ so I was wondering if it was OK.
I'm playing in a jazz trio that can be loud (digital keyboard), and another that is more traditional (acoustic piano) that can become a quartet or a quintet (sax and/or trumpet).

I was thinking about it because I also play jazz guitar and keyboard.

I was hesitating between this and a PJB from BG 75 to BG 120.
There is a thread about all their models but I was scared to ask about PA combo system.

Thanks !

I've never tried one for double bass, but based on hearing them used for PA, I'd say it's not going to sound great.

 

[Lionel Albert]

Well, for the price I'd rather go for a PJB amp.

 

[dylanjohnson]

FYI:

I don't have specs for the MAS option, but I did dig up specs for the old STL3.0-8 combo

The STL3.0 Shuttle amp is rated 175W at 8 ohms and 300W at 4 ohms. Here are the specs for the Genz Benz STL8 extension cab. The cab is paired with the head to produce the combo.

View attachment 7371745

Calculated SPL at 175W is ~117.4dB. FYI, actual SPL is usually a bit less due to power compression.

If you are happy with this level of performance, I totally accept it. I would find it acceptable for background music gigs, but not feature shows.

IME a rig rated for 118dB gets the job done most of the time, but I often found it frustrating due to insufficient headroom. Basically I had to limit my dynamic range and accept that I won't be able to hear quite as well as I want.

First of all, I made a mistake here. I have the 10" cab! Not the 8. I should have stayed out of this thread!

Specs are specs, but voicing of the amp and cab and matching them correctly DOES make a huge difference in perceived volume and clarity.
This amp actually does an amazing job of cutting through the mix without sounding horrendous.
I play a very loud and packed club weekly and tried all these rigs to hear myself better.
1. GK MB150s with extension cabinet- No dice- The louder it was, the less clarity and focus I achieved.
2. Walter Woods Amber Light with MAS 18. Nope- Couldn't cut through, even with heavy eq. Beautiful sounding alone. The MAS is INCREDIBLE, though.
3. Walter Woods Amber Light with Schroeder PL112. This could get loud enough, but was incredibly boomy and needed to be on a stand. Harsh sounding.
4. GK MB500 with both of the above cabs. Ok, but tonally not what I'm looking for. Made the bass incredibly uneven.
5. AI Doubler with above cabs. More even but somewhat brittle.

So to summarize, @Jeff Genzler and @agedhorse made a combo that for me has outperformed ALL THE BEST amps out there. I've owned AI amps (muddy and useless eq) and Phil Jones (great sound, couldn't hear myself), and this amp outperformed them for my needs. No preamps, no HPF's, just plug and play.
Two of my favorite bassists in LA- Luther Hughes and Ken Wild both play Shuttle combos.
I'm saving for a Genzler rig now, as I'm imagining that they will be even better.

I look for rigs ``rated for 124dB minimum. Not always enough, but I am not willing to

 

[Wasnex]

First of all, I made a mistake here. I have the 10" cab! Not the 8. I should have stayed out of this thread!

Specs are specs, but voicing of the amp and cab and matching them correctly DOES make a huge difference in perceived volume and clarity.
This amp actually does an amazing job of cutting through the mix without sounding horrendous.
I play a very loud and packed club weekly and tried all these rigs to hear myself better.
1. GK MB150s with extension cabinet- No dice- The louder it was, the less clarity and focus I achieved.
2. Walter Woods Amber Light with MAS 18. Nope- Couldn't cut through, even with heavy eq. Beautiful sounding alone. The MAS is INCREDIBLE, though.
3. Walter Woods Amber Light with Schroeder PL112. This could get loud enough, but was incredibly boomy and needed to be on a stand. Harsh sounding.
4. GK MB500 with both of the above cabs. Ok, but tonally not what I'm looking for. Made the bass incredibly uneven.
5. AI Doubler with above cabs. More even but somewhat brittle.

So to summarize, @Jeff Genzler and @agedhorse made a combo that for me has outperformed ALL THE BEST amps out there. I've owned AI amps (muddy and useless eq) and Phil Jones (great sound, couldn't hear myself), and this amp outperformed them for my needs. No preamps, no HPF's, just plug and play.
Two of my favorite bassists in LA- Luther Hughes and Ken Wild both play Shuttle combos.
I'm saving for a Genzler rig now, as I'm imagining that they will be even better.

Just wanted to clarify. My intent is not to contradict your experience and opinion. This all sounds perfectly valid. My intent was to point out that what works for one person won't necessarily work for everyone in every situation.

Also, since I have never tried your preferred rig, I can't say it won't work for me, only that the specs suggest it wouldn't meet some of my headroom needs. My GK 700RB/112 worked really well in the rehearsal room, but it tended to run out of headroom for performances.

 

[dylanjohnson]

Just wanted to clarify. My intent is not to contradict your experience and opinion. This all sounds perfectly valid. My intent was to point out that what works for one person won't necessarily work for everyone in every situation.

Also, since I have never tried your preferred rig, I can't say it won't work for me, only that the specs suggest it wouldn't meet some of my headroom needs. My GK 700RB/112 worked really well in the rehearsal room, but it tended to run out of headroom for performances.

Understood and appreciated!

 

[loukash]

@Lionel Albert, this YT channel is publishing multiple comparison videos with the Yamaha Stagepas, EV Everse 8, Bose S1, and others:

Georgе Chekinoff

fbf404c3-87d9-4ab3-b755-6966771b6349 Канал создан для освещения уличной культуры, музыкального творчества. Личного развития. Собственные каверы на Акустической Гитаре, а так же каверы и авторское творчество друзей. Инструментальные аранжировки на Укулеле и Блокфлейте. Обзоры на музыкальное...

youtube.com

The comparisons are note very "scientific" (the same old Dire Straits track over and over again) but they can still give a bit of an idea how these small boxes compare in term of loudness.

 

[Lionel Albert]

@Lionel Albert, this YT channel is publishing multiple comparison videos with the Yamaha Stagepas, EV Everse 8, Bose S1, and others:

Georgе Chekinoff

fbf404c3-87d9-4ab3-b755-6966771b6349 Канал создан для освещения уличной культуры, музыкального творчества. Личного развития. Собственные каверы на Акустической Гитаре, а так же каверы и авторское творчество друзей. Инструментальные аранжировки на Укулеле и Блокфлейте. Обзоры на музыкальное...

youtube.com

The comparisons are note very "scientific" (the same old Dire Straits track over and over again) but they can still give a bit of an idea how these small boxes compare in term of loudness.

Oh yes, it's you, I've already seen a bunch of your videos but they don't really tell me how it would sound with a double bass.
It sounds loud and clear with an MP3, the sound is already compressed but it doesn't tell me how it can sound in another context.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[loukash]

it's you

Uh, no, that's not me. I don't even have a YT account…
(Disclosure: I can still read a bit Russian though, as we had to learn it in school back in the 1970s beyond the Iron Curtain…)