Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

[TroyK]

I'm not an electronics guy, but the capacitor thing is a very simple mod. Not something you would need to get from Japan. If you really weren't comfortable doing it, anyone with a soldering iron could.

I'm happy that I got my (single element E threads up) without. It's a precision instrument, the pickups I had before were not as present and once I acclimated to that, it stopped seeming like a problem. Maybe I'll feel differently later, but I don't think it would be hard to remedy if so.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Someone checked capacitor values here on Talkbass for the Yamahiko and maybe even has been given a recommended value from the manufacturer.
Worth to do a search.

 

[TroyK]

I was set to order mine with a capacitor but the manufacturer asked me how much... I'm going to say this wrong... "resistance"? I wanted and offered me 1/2 dozen values with no recommendations, which is why I opted for stock. It's just a little, common part to solder inline in the lead wire. If we still had Radio Shack, it looked like something you could buy one of in every value for a nickle each and try them all before deciding.

If you had never soldered before, it would be the perfect first project to learn on. Couldn't be more simple.

 

[WynstonMinckler]

@TroyK ya you’re probably right. I could do it myself. There’s a great old school electronics store not too far from my house that I’m sure sells all the diff capacitors radio shack style.

So now I’m running a yamahiko (threads up, single E side) -> Stanley Clarke EBS preamp -> old Euphonic Audio Doubler -> Barefaced Super Midget. I was using the Fishman platinum but it died on a gig. The Fishman was easier to gain stage because you could run the gain quite low to compensate for the hot signal from the yamahiko. An Fdeck might be a good idea too, there’s a lot of low end to tame from the signal from the yamahiko. Overall, when I get a dialed sound this pickup still kills every other one I’ve heard.

Thanks for everyone’s advice on this!

 

[bassically_eli]

The Neutrik Timbre Plug and Ultimate Plug might be of interest to anyone dealing with an overly hot piezo pickup. I thought about getting one for my Lifeline, but I'm currently using a custom DIY cable instead. I have, unfortunately, been unable to find out the exact values of the capacitors used and how difficult it might be to modify. I thought it could be useful to modify it to make one position of the dial a mute switch.

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[DoubleMIDI]

Try this thread:
1/4" Attenuator for Piezo
You might want to read the whole thread but this is the part with the values.
Not authorized by the manufacturer, I was wrong with that one.

 

[bassmanbrent]

An Fdeck might be a good idea too, there’s a lot of low end to tame from the signal from the yamahiko

Hey Wynston. I have an old Fdeck that I don't use. Lemme know if you want to check it out.

 

[crd]

The Yamahiko is working out well for me. Here is some quick audio. I also recorded the Remic mic as well as the Yamahiko so you can a/b and get a sense of the acoustic sound of my bass. (She's still new and we are just getting to know each other.) The Yamahiko is running into a Felix via TRS cable. The mix is between the sides of the pick-up is favoring the E side. It sounds pretty much like my realist did but clearer in the higher registers. I do love how it's mounted. They all kind of sound the same in the end, not as nice as a mic. Both the Felix and Remic are running into my UAD Apollo interface.

I guess I should also state the obvious this is "direct". There is no speaker/room to color the sound. Piezo's always sound better through a speaker but I learn a lot from listening to myself direct.

Dropbox - Yamahiko_test

 

[vanselus]

Wow crd, love the comparison. I've never been able to get that "acoustic" of a sound out of the Yama, more "big fretless". Thanks for taking the time to make the recording and I completely agree, listening direct is very illuminating always, but especially when we're talking a big wood box and a piezo.

 

[crd]

Wow crd, love the comparison. I've never been able to get that "acoustic" of a sound out of the Yama, more "big fretless". Thanks for taking the time to make the recording and I completely agree, listening direct is very illuminating always, but especially when we're talking a big wood box and a piezo.

Thanks for checking it out. Nerding is more fun with a group. ha. The Y seems to really like a much higher buffer than other pickups. Both channels were running into the high impedance setting (10 and 20m) on the Felix. Some people get really good results with just one side but that doesn't work well on my bass.

 

[dylanjohnson]

Thanks for that. I've noticed that many people have basses that don't like this pickup. I have two basses right now, a Juzek and a Rauner, and the Rauner has a more open sound with lots more sustain, but less thump or midrange bump on the edge of the notes. I'm guessing that the Yamahiko won't sound good on that bass. My Juzek is dark, midrangey, and has a thump in the attack with much less sustain. The Realist doesn't work on that bass, and the Full Circle I've used for years is pretty dark and boomy sounding on that bass. The Yamahiko really seems to work well for cleaning it up. I keep a Full Circle on the Rauner, and I'd imagine that the Realist might sound great on that bass, too. I always wondered why some players get such a great sound with the Realist.

 

[crd]

Thanks for that. I've noticed that many people have basses that don't like this pickup. I have two basses right now, a Juzek and a Rauner, and the Rauner has a more open sound with lots more sustain, but less thump or midrange bump on the edge of the notes. I'm guessing that the Yamahiko won't sound good on that bass. My Juzek is dark, midrangey, and has a thump in the attack with much less sustain. The Realist doesn't work on that bass, and the Full Circle I've used for years is pretty dark and boomy sounding on that bass. The Yamahiko really seems to work well for cleaning it up. I keep a Full Circle on the Rauner, and I'd imagine that the Realist might sound great on that bass, too. I always wondered why some players get such a great sound with the Realist.

I've noticed it takes me years to really get this dialed in. I played on the Realist for 5 or 6 years before I got it to really sound good. I imagine the Y and my new bass will take a similar amount of time for me to get used to. With the new instrument there were a number of things I wanted to try out because I was too afraid to mess up with the set-up of my older instrument that I am trying out now and all I've really learned is that I like whatever I've used longest

 

[Hasty]

A few months into the Yamahiko and I'm still liking it.

Originally my setup was dual sensors into a single mono jack. I ordered some parts to fabricate a TRS dual cable system and finally finished it yesterday. I've only done one simple test with it so far and it was really eye-opening. Initially, I ran both channels into my DAW and recorded a simple little line with everything flat. Sounded the same as it always does, which is a little on the thin side in the upper register. Then I flipped the phase on just the bass foot and it sounded about the same. Next I flipped the phase on just the treble foot. Holy smokes that made a huge difference. That thin sound I hear in the upper register became more low mid-focused and less like of the odd fretless p-bass sound I sometimes get when running it flat.

Can't wait to get it on the Felix and start tweaking.

For anyone with a dual sensor and a single cable that is interested in the idea of rolling their own cable, I highly recommend it. It's easier that soldering a 1/4' patch cable but it does take a specialized crimper to do it correctly. However even buying that crimper, the out of pocket cost was still significantly less that shipping a dual cable jack. Plus I have enough left over to make a few more cables if I wanted to.

 

[crd]

A few months into the Yamahiko and I'm still liking it.

Originally my setup was dual sensors into a single mono jack. I ordered some parts to fabricate a TRS dual cable system and finally finished it yesterday. I've only done one simple test with it so far and it was really eye-opening. Initially, I ran both channels into my DAW and recorded a simple little line with everything flat. Sounded the same as it always does, which is a little on the thin side in the upper register. Then I flipped the phase on just the bass foot and it sounded about the same. Next I flipped the phase on just the treble foot. Holy smokes that made a huge difference. That thin sound I hear in the upper register became more low mid-focused and less like of the odd fretless p-bass sound I sometimes get when running it flat.

Can't wait to get it on the Felix and start tweaking.

For anyone with a dual sensor and a single cable that is interested in the idea of rolling their own cable, I highly recommend it. It's easier that soldering a 1/4' patch cable but it does take a specialized crimper to do it correctly. However even buying that crimper, the out of pocket cost was still significantly less that shipping a dual cable jack. Plus I have enough left over to make a few more cables if I wanted to.

View attachment 5008576

Awesome! yeah -- flipping the phase on that channel made a huge difference for me as well. Paired with the Felix it's a really powerful set-up. It's finally something I feel like is better than my old realist --> WW MI-400 combo.

 

[Hasty]

Now I need to solder up an appropriate length TRS cable. I might build a phase switching box too, for the times I can't/don't use the Felix. Although the EA Doubler and the Ten2 both have phase switches (but I think the Ten2 switch only works with the XLR?). That way I can run them both to a single amp input but still have the ability to flip the phase.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Interesting. I have two O.G. demo units (1990s) with a cable running between the E and G wheels, then the E side to TS jack.

Ive always just used eh E side (Ala "OnerWood" setups) as the sound was fuller/puncher. Maybe the I needs to fill the phase between the E and G side?

Does anyone know/experimented with 'flipping the phase' of the mono mode setup?
IE: Gside pickup >cable (flip polarity) to> ESide pickup >cable to> TSjack.

 

[flatback]

So glad you cats are experimenting with this set up. When I first had the idea to do this with the Yamahiko I was little skeptical that it make much difference but I figured since the Yamahiko jack was already stereo and the Felix had this wonderful built in feature that you could run a single TRS to it and it would split the signal that it was worth exploring. The real reason was the phase that everyone was insisting was detrimental to just bridging the two together...Indeed the phase makes a big difference and as one of the early adopters and endorsers of the Felix, I pestered them for a few years about adding variable phase between the channels (really at Michael Arnopol's suggestion...his EA amp had the feature and HE was into it...and for whatever problems anyone has ever had with Michael, the truth is he knows this stuff inside out backward/forward)
Well the NEW Felix HAS variable phase and I would love to try this set up with a new Felix although they made the first one so good that mine which is now nearly 10 years old and has been on hundreds of gigs still operates like new. Im hoping one of you cats has the new Felix to try this out with.
In my constant need to try new sheite, I moved on to the Redeye and mixing two different pickups (always keeping the Y bridged and part of my setup) but with your interest in the TRS set up I go back to it for gigs on occasion and I gotta say it is an awesome setup. I like to have the E side with a 20Mohm imp and the G side with 10Mohm and then favor the E side by about 70/30 with the blend. (but a lot of blends sound good room depending) the other thing is the Felix's HPF's which are killer and can be used to alter the tone and thickness.
Having that single TRS from the bass ( I have all kinds of custom 2 cord snakes: 2x 1/4in. -1/4/XLR etc) and just having the TRS but with independent control of each pickup is really nice.
It's great to hear (after all this time of being out in the cold on this) other cats finding it to be a useful working setup.
looking forward to learning from your experience.
Karl: I had Mr Y build a Yamahiko with reversed phase (I have it on my other bass and bridged) it is great and gets to the same place as flipping the phase one one ch of the felix

 

[Hasty]

When I first had the idea to do this with the Yamahiko I was little skeptical that it make much difference but I figured since the Yamahiko jack was already stereo and the Felix had this wonderful built in feature that you could run a single TRS to it and it would split the signal that it was worth exploring.

Hang on... this is a thing with the Felix? My Felix is probably 3 years old and I was totally unaware of this feature.

New ask... Anyone care to share pics of their setups? It might save me a little time and frustration with my setup moving forward.

Also, thanks for sharing all the killer info on your history with the Yamahiko.

 

[crd]

Hang on... this is a thing with the Felix? My Felix is probably 3 years old and I was totally unaware of this feature.

New ask... Anyone care to share pics of their setups? It might save me a little time and frustration with my setup moving forward.

Also, thanks for sharing all the killer info on your history with the Yamahiko.

Yeah --- Channel 2 splits the signal. The Felix is an amazing utility device!! I love that I can make high quality recordings with a mic during the day and take it to use as a pre-amp for the Yamahiko on gigs. I thought about buying one for a long time before I pulled the trigger but now it's one of my always on devices.

So glad you cats are experimenting with this set up. When I first had the idea to do this with the Yamahiko I was little skeptical that it make much difference but I figured since the Yamahiko jack was already stereo and the Felix had this wonderful built in feature that you could run a single TRS to it and it would split the signal that it was worth exploring. The real reason was the phase that everyone was insisting was detrimental to just bridging the two together...Indeed the phase makes a big difference and as one of the early adopters and endorsers of the Felix, I pestered them for a few years about adding variable phase between the channels (really at Michael Arnopol's suggestion...his EA amp had the feature and HE was into it...and for whatever problems anyone has ever had with Michael, the truth is he knows this stuff inside out backward/forward)
Well the NEW Felix HAS variable phase and I would love to try this set up with a new Felix although they made the first one so good that mine which is now nearly 10 years old and has been on hundreds of gigs still operates like new. Im hoping one of you cats has the new Felix to try this out with.
In my constant need to try new sheite, I moved on to the Redeye and mixing two different pickups (always keeping the Y bridged and part of my setup) but with your interest in the TRS set up I go back to it for gigs on occasion and I gotta say it is an awesome setup. I like to have the E side with a 20Mohm imp and the G side with 10Mohm and then favor the E side by about 70/30 with the blend. (but a lot of blends sound good room depending) the other thing is the Felix's HPF's which are killer and can be used to alter the tone and thickness.
Having that single TRS from the bass ( I have all kinds of custom 2 cord snakes: 2x 1/4in. -1/4/XLR etc) and just having the TRS but with independent control of each pickup is really nice.
It's great to hear (after all this time of being out in the cold on this) other cats finding it to be a useful working setup.
looking forward to learning from your experience.
Karl: I had Mr Y build a Yamahiko with reversed phase (I have it on my other bass and bridged) it is great and gets to the same place as flipping the phase one one ch of the felix

I have a lot of respect for Michael's knowledge. I've build a lot of my set-up around stuff I got from his posts here and the killer sound of those old Patricia Barber CD's buuuut, I think he never understood how phase works in this instance. The old EA amps and Walter Woods amps have a phase switch which was talking about how your sound came out of your speaker. This isn't the same thing.

The variable phase in the Felix is meant to sync a close mic, and a far mic, or a pick-up and a mic. It's about the time domain. I don't think it has much use in this instance. Every time you play the G side the bass the phase relationship is one way and every time you play the E side of the bass the phase relationship is another. Flipping the phase on channel 2 (the treble side ? I think) just sounds "right", messing with it any further just complicates things to no advantage. The goal shouldn't be to get the two sides of the Yamahiko 100% in phase; just like you wouldn't want a far mic or a stereo mic pair 100% in phase, you just don't want a detrimental phase relationship.

I already shared these with Hasty but someone else may find them useful so I will put pictures here of my bass and how I like the Felix set with TRS cable going into channel 2. I spent a weekend recording myself and tweaking to get the settings how I liked best. I made sure to level match and do a blind test to make sure this was what I thought worked best. I never ever want to change my set-up ever again. I love my new bass & pick-up but what a time suck after playing the same rig for 10+ years. I do a little eq-ing on gigs but it's pretty much been set it and forget it. The fundamental of my bass set like this, through a Barefaced speaker, feels great.

 

[flatback]

Well that is great to know about the phase. Truth is I trusted what Michael said way earlier in this thread about dialing the phase somewhere between, but never had a chance to try it, even though I pestered the cats at Felix about it. I see that you have the new Felix so I am really happy to find that I dont need to think more about it. Imagine if you had replied, "Oh the phase ABSOLUTELY must be at 43 1/3 for the Y to be perfectly in phase and then it is NIRVANA" So thanks.
Truth is I play with the Y's bridged ALOT and love it. IT CUTS.This pickup responds to eq such that if I need more or less a small twist of the dial gets me there...Just hooked mine up again but my stereo jack is fritzing so Im gunna have to deal with that.
and Yes about the utility device, I record into it and then into the DAW with my mics when it isnt in use with my bass gear

 

[crd]

Well that is great to know about the phase. Truth is I trusted what Michael said way earlier in this thread about dialing the phase somewhere between, but never had a chance to try it, even though I pestered the cats at Felix about it. I see that you have the new Felix so I am really happy to find that I dont need to think more about it. Imagine if you had replied, "Oh the phase ABSOLUTELY must be at 43 1/3 for the Y to be perfectly in phase and then it is NIRVANA" So thanks.
Truth is I play with the Y's bridged ALOT and love it. IT CUTS.This pickup responds to eq such that if I need more or less a small twist of the dial gets me there...Just hooked mine up again but my stereo jack is fritzing so Im gunna have to deal with that.
and Yes about the utility device, I record into it and then into the DAW with my mics when it isnt in use with my bass gear

Ha yeah! Truth is any of the options is more than useable.