Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

[lowfreqgeek]

I just read that in the manual (8.1) and confirmed with a little testing. It was nice to only run a single TRS cable back and not worry about splitting anything manually.

I never thought I'd say this... but the ability to split those pickups, adjust the phase, and EQ each pickup individually through the Felix is putting my ToneDexter at serious risk of going in the closet. I just spent an hour playing around with it and adjusting some settings. I won't be so bold as to say that it sounds like a microphone, but it's scary just how close it is tone wise to my ToneDexter right now.

I've got a few gigs coming up so I'll test it at louder volumes and in different rooms but if it sounds as good as it does right now I might be selling that ToneDexter soon. Every single complaint I had about the Yamahiko (and TBH there were only a couple) when I was running mono have completely evaporated. Everything that I needed to ToneDexter to correct isn't present anymore.

I looked up the Felix manual and was (again) blown away by all the options they built into that thing! This whole discussion is REALLY pushing me to consider the Yamahiko, even though it would mean having to get my bridge cut. Truth be told, I need to get my bass into the shop for some cracks and occasional rattles, so it wouldn't hurt to just have it all taken care of at once.

 

[flatback]

I really like the Redeye and what it does but I was curious that someone prefers the way the Felix loads the Yamahiko so I was experimenting this weekend. Gotta say the non Redeye (straight into the Felix) sounds great with 20Mohm on the E side and 10Mohm on the G and then the HPF's dialed up a bit to taste(which is how I used to use it). I got back out my MAS 46 which I want to start using again (just bought an amp for it) and THAT combo(Felix/46) KILLS. BUT putting the Redeye AFTER all that also KILLS. There is something about what the Redeye does (I imagine that even a post loaded signal goes into the Redeye and even the lesser impedance fluctuations are handled by the RE...I dont know but it sounds great)
The simplicity yet totally killing sound of the Dual Y TRS/Felix thing is really compelling. Tried it in an old GK150MB at a friends and THAT never sounded better (except for the rattle)

 

[Hasty]

I really like the Redeye and what it does but I was curious that someone prefers the way the Felix loads the Yamahiko so I was experimenting this weekend. Gotta say the non Redeye (straight into the Felix) sounds great with 20Mohm on the E side and 10Mohm on the G and then the HPF's dialed up a bit to taste(which is how I used to use it). I got back out my MAS 46 which I want to start using again (just bought an amp for it) and THAT combo(Felix/46) KILLS. BUT putting the Redeye AFTER all that also KILLS. There is something about what the Redeye does (I imagine that even a post loaded signal goes into the Redeye and even the lesser impedance fluctuations are handled by the RE...I dont know but it sounds great)
The simplicity yet totally killing sound of the Dual Y TRS/Felix thing is really compelling. Tried it in an old GK150MB at a friends and THAT never sounded better (except for the rattle)

I’m still curious how the Red Eye sounds in the chain, but I’m also cautious of changing too much at once. I’m on the list for the demo so I’ll likely just wait my turn before committing. Plus that will give me some time to dial in the Felix.

I agree that the MAS really kills with this setup. I was running it through the 16 because I know what to expect from that cab so it’s a great baseline.

 

[crd]

I really like the Redeye and what it does but I was curious that someone prefers the way the Felix loads the Yamahiko so I was experimenting this weekend. Gotta say the non Redeye (straight into the Felix) sounds great with 20Mohm on the E side and 10Mohm on the G and then the HPF's dialed up a bit to taste(which is how I used to use it). I got back out my MAS 46 which I want to start using again (just bought an amp for it) and THAT combo(Felix/46) KILLS. BUT putting the Redeye AFTER all that also KILLS. There is something about what the Redeye does (I imagine that even a post loaded signal goes into the Redeye and even the lesser impedance fluctuations are handled by the RE...I dont know but it sounds great)
The simplicity yet totally killing sound of the Dual Y TRS/Felix thing is really compelling. Tried it in an old GK150MB at a friends and THAT never sounded better (except for the rattle)

Do you mean the Redeye between the Felix and a power amp?

20m and 10m on the Felix was the sweet spot for me also. I think having them mismatched like that helps them blend, but I am curious what 20m on both sides would sound like.

 

[flatback]

Yeah like that.

 

[Hasty]

OK, so this afternoon I'm invited to a private get together of some musician friends. I normally do this kind of stuff straight acoustic, but I'm bringing along a friend that's a great drummer. So I thought it would be prudent to have a little amplification on standby just in case I needed it.

I was testing out a few very small battery powered pedals that get enough juice from the Yamahiko (mono/TS) to the MAS 16 powered cab. Hated everything I tried... then on a whim I grabbed the Idiotbox Han-Taun (Klon clone). At first it was just like the others, really thin and too much treble. So I dialed the gain back to almost nothing and rolled the tone completely off. That configuration was an absolute show stopper. I was completely gobsmacked, mainly because I really dislike the Klon on anything bass related. The only reason I keep that pedal is because of the artwork and it's really unique. I was momentarily pleased beyond the capacity for rational thought. I'll definitely try to get a recording of this one to share.

If you've got a Klon clone I highly recommend giving it a try. There is really no reason why it works as well as it does... but here we are.

 

[Brent Nussey]

Made a few updates to the schematic ....This afternoon I'll see if I have enough parts to breadboard it and try it out. If so it might be a reasonable option for the dual Yamahiko setup. I'll end the thread hijack here unless something amazing happens.

Thanks for all the good feedback. Gave me some great ideas.

I'm interested in your project, and hope you give us more updates. Where I live Yamahikos are pretty common, and one of my basses has Yamahiko adjusters, so I've been thinking about getting one myself. The other day a student came in with a newly installed Yamahiko, so it was a great excuse to experiment. We tried both sides, bass side only, treble side only, etc. I found on that bass at least, that both sides was the best sound. Bass side only was a bit tubby, treble side was a bit thin (comparing to both together). I started to think that the ability to blend the two sides might be worthwhile. So I was thinking the ideal preamp would be a buffer for each element, with phase switch and volume for each. Then summed to one mono output. Of course, if an HPF could be added at the end, then maybe you could get good results into any bass amp or preamp/DI... But that would just be a bonus.

I think I could assemble one of these, but I don't know how to design a circuit like that. So I'm looking on with interest!

 

[Hasty]

This week I put together a few cables for the dual Yamahiko setup with parts I had in the bin and a little balanced cable I ordered.

First is a TRS to TRS cable that I can use for the Felix and it splits into a two channel at the preamp (coolest thing ever BTW). I actually made two of these.

Second is a TRS to TS so I can use the Yamahiko with any standard preamp/amp and use both piezos. I used it today with the Klon clone and it worked great.

Last is a small TRS male to TS female adapter that I’ll always have in the case. Just in case a cable breaks or whatever. It’s only 8 inches or so long and I can attach it to the tailpiece if I need to. This will allow me to use any standard instrument cable or my Sennheiser wireless receiver, which I do for certain gigs from time to time.

 

[Hasty]

Well I got the Saturnworks phase inverter and it works pretty well, but it was a pain to hook up multiple cables... so I carried on with my previous project on the phase inverter. I settled on a cool little schematic that combined two things. Phase inverters and a summing mixer, and it works great!

Here's how it looks

What I ended up with was a few PCB's crammed into a single box. First is the two channel phase inverters that tie into a summing mixer, next is a passive James tone stack, and finally an SHO at the end.

I like this because I can run it off a battery or a OneSpot and it's small enough to keep in the bag with my MAS16 cab. Added a dual color LED so I know if I'm running it off battery(green) or wall power (red).

I'll probably use one of the other PCB's from that order to build the same thing, but use a SushiBox Space Heater as a preamp instead of the SHO and also add an XLR transformer so I can blend a microphone as well. However that definitely won't fit into this size enclosure and would probably not respond well to a 9V battery.

Pay no attention to the wiring... it's a hot mess because I only wanted to see if it worked. I'll clean everything up later. I also could have trimmed the lower corners better to fit in the box, but that's just cosmetic and that's why I don't do this for a living!

 

[SamuelHarris]

Well I got the Saturnworks phase inverter and it works pretty well, but it was a pain to hook up multiple cables... so I carried on with my previous project on the phase inverter. I settled on a cool little schematic that combined two things. Phase inverters and a summing mixer, and it works great!

Here's how it looks

View attachment 5043997

What I ended up with was a few PCB's crammed into a single box. First is the two channel phase inverters that tie into a summing mixer, next is a passive James tone stack, and finally an SHO at the end.

I like this because I can run it off a battery or a OneSpot and it's small enough to keep in the bag with my MAS16 cab. Added a dual color LED so I know if I'm running it off battery(green) or wall power (red).

I'll probably use one of the other PCB's from that order to build the same thing, but use a SushiBox Space Heater as a preamp instead of the SHO and also add an XLR transformer so I can blend a microphone as well. However that definitely won't fit into this size enclosure and would probably not respond well to a 9V battery.

Pay no attention to the wiring... it's a hot mess because I only wanted to see if it worked. I'll clean everything up later. I also could have trimmed the lower corners better to fit in the box, but that's just cosmetic and that's why I don't do this for a living!

View attachment 5043998

Bravo!
Any chance of labelling the picture? I'm curious what each switch/knob is.

Also could you clarify what 'SHO' is?

 

[Hasty]

Bravo!
Any chance of labelling the picture? I'm curious what each switch/knob is.

Also could you clarify what 'SHO' is?

Sure! I haven't done artwork for the enclosure yet, so I can see how it might look odd. I usually do that after I build and test.

The SHO (Super Hard On) is a boost/preamp pedal that was designed by ZVEX effects. It was one of the first effect pedals I learned how to make on my own from a schematic and etch a board myself. Deceptively simple, relatively transparent, and incredibly loud. I also like it because the default circuit has an input impedance of 10M, which aligns with my goals nicely. Plus the power draw is almost nothing (2mA), so a battery last forever with it. I've made a bunch of these SHO type pedals over the years in various configurations.

I added some simple labels to the pic:

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Well I got the Saturnworks phase inverter and it works pretty well, but it was a pain to hook up multiple cables... so I carried on with my previous project on the phase inverter. I settled on a cool little schematic that combined two things. Phase inverters and a summing mixer, and it works great!

Here's how it looks

View attachment 5043997

What I ended up with was a few PCB's crammed into a single box. First is the two channel phase inverters that tie into a summing mixer, next is a passive James tone stack, and finally an SHO at the end.

I like this because I can run it off a battery or a OneSpot and it's small enough to keep in the bag with my MAS16 cab. Added a dual color LED so I know if I'm running it off battery(green) or wall power (red).

I'll probably use one of the other PCB's from that order to build the same thing, but use a SushiBox Space Heater as a preamp instead of the SHO and also add an XLR transformer so I can blend a microphone as well. However that definitely won't fit into this size enclosure and would probably not respond well to a 9V battery.

Pay no attention to the wiring... it's a hot mess because I only wanted to see if it worked. I'll clean everything up later. I also could have trimmed the lower corners better to fit in the box, but that's just cosmetic and that's why I don't do this for a living!

View attachment 5043998

Nice job!

 

[Hasty]

Nice job!

Thanks! I think I got through it and only made one mistake. I left a floating pin on the last opamp cause the original schematic called for a TL071 but I've got a bunch of TL072's in the bin so I just built out my schematic around the TL072's. Might not be a big deal, but I updated the schematic and board to address that and I'm about 75% sure I did it correctly. In case I didn't I left a jumper trace pad that can be cut for future boards. I also included a mute option for the two inputs on v2.

 

[Brent Nussey]

Great! I think I follow everything. I wonder if it's possible to add a volume control for each element. It'd have to be after the buffer, but passive volume would work fine, right? I mean, you have lots of gain from the boost circuit to make up for it if needed. Messing around with my student's Yamahiko, I thought controlling the relative volume of each element would be super useful.

I hadn't thought that tone controls were needed, but that seems to be a pretty simple and effective setup (I looked up how it works online). Battery or wall wart power is a really nice touch, so it can be used in a powered setup, but you can also take just that box if you want to travel light.

How did you get the circuit boards made? Back in high school I learned how to etch them in acid (I think that was how we did it...) but it was much cruder. It looks like there are services to make custom PCBs now. If you get some more, can I buy a couple off you?

Anyway, bravo!

 

[Hasty]

Great! I think I follow everything. I wonder if it's possible to add a volume control for each element. It'd have to be after the buffer, but passive volume would work fine, right? I mean, you have lots of gain from the boost circuit to make up for it if needed. Messing around with my student's Yamahiko, I thought controlling the relative volume of each element would be super useful.

I hadn't thought that tone controls were needed, but that seems to be a pretty simple and effective setup (I looked up how it works online). Battery or wall wart power is a really nice touch, so it can be used in a powered setup, but you can also take just that box if you want to travel light.

How did you get the circuit boards made? Back in high school I learned how to etch them in acid (I think that was how we did it...) but it was much cruder. It looks like there are services to make custom PCBs now. If you get some more, can I buy a couple off you?

Anyway, bravo!

I think it would be possible to add a simple volume between the phase and the mixer, however the PCB would have to be re-worked to fit it. Might be easier to place a passive volume knob in front of each pickup before it hits the phase/buffer.

I've been messing around with it quite a bit tonight and I had initially thought about a volume as well, but now I feel like the phase options and the tone stack make a huge difference. It's probably the same on my Felix, but since there's less to control here... the changes seem more drastic and obvious.

So far I've had the best luck flipping the phase on the bass side because it adds more depth and takes out most of that piezo twang. Then I bump up the treble a little to add the "woody" tone and the percussive tone I get from my fingers when the string snaps. Then just a little bit of bass to round it out. So far I'm pretty happy with that.

You are correct that the boost circuit has lots of gain on tap. I started clipping into my powered cab pretty quickly because the signal was pretty hot so I don't have to turn it up much at all.

As far as the PCB's. I did all that in KiCAD. I used to order from EasyEDA and PCBWay, but shipping to me from China is pretty expensive. So now I get most of my smaller PCB's from OSHPark. I still use PCBWay for the bigger boards, just have to balance out which is more cost effective. To give you an idea, 3 PCB's from OSHPark with shipping is $27 and the components from Mouser were about $11. I already had an enclosure so that doesn't factor into cost. I could probably get 10 of those same PCB's from PCBWay for about 5$, but shipping to me in Texas is around $25.

If you're in Tokyo, shipping from PCBWay might be the best and fastest route... especially if you know how to put a board together. I'm happy to share the Gerber production files, since I approach that with an open source, Creative Commons type mindset.

I definitely don't want to hijack this thread with build stuff, unless everyone is cool with that... but shoot me a PM and we can talk more if you're interested. I can give you all the excruciating details for building one out. This is a pretty low parts count project so if you're comfortable building stuff like this, it's a breeze.

 

[crd]

@Hasty Do you like 10m better than 20m for the buffer? With the Felix I leave it 20/10 but have always wondered what 20 for both sides would sound like.

 

[Hasty]

@Hasty Do you like 10m better than 20m for the buffer? With the Felix I leave it 20/10 but have always wondered what 20 for both sides would sound like.

I haven’t tried a 20M yet. I thought about adding a switch to flip between 10M and 20M. Might do that with the next one. Next one will be with a space heater PCB I’ve got.

 

[flatback]

Hey Hasty,
That box lookscool...Im just curious?You have a Felix with all these capabilities on there already?Or am I missing sumthin? Just curious if it is just to make a phase box smaller? Seems like you would want a blend knob for the two pickups.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Don‘t put the volume pots in front of the preamp, it kills your high impedance input.

 

[Hasty]

Don‘t put the volume pots in front of the preamp, it kills your high impedance input.

You're absolutely correct. Thanks for that reminder.