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Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

Hey Hasty,
That box lookscool...Im just curious?You have a Felix with all these capabilities on there already?Or am I missing sumthin? Just curious if it is just to make a phase box smaller? Seems like you would want a blend knob for the two pickups.

Thanks.

I do have a Felix so you're not missing anything. I basically made this because I love building effect pedals. Over the years I've made tube amplifiers, boost pedals, fuzz, mind bending super synth distortion, octaves, delays, compressors, MIDI... but I really don't use effects that much so I give them away to my friends. They're fun to make and I like figuring out how they work.

I didn't need to build out this phase/preamp pedal, but I wanted to see if I could. I really love taking an idea from drawing out the schematic to the final step of using it on a gig. The more I messed with this one, the more I liked it. It's tiny, battery powered, and almost fits in my pocket. The Felix is an amazing tool, but it's mounted in my gig box with everything else. With my trio, that gig box is an essential tool because I'm almost always doubling with that setup and it has everything I need in a box on wheels. When I think of "my sound" I think of that box and the Felix is the backbone of that box.

Gig Box.jpg

However, sometimes we're doing small, intimate corporate wallpaper type gigs where we should be heard and not seen... and one might even argue the "hear" bit. Those gigs always seem to involve terrible parking, a long walk, possibly small elevators, and a tiny footprint for the trio to set up. In this instance the double bass, my tiny MAS16 powered cab, and a super tiny preamp that sounds good are right on the money. Everything goes in a single trip without breaking my spine.

Tiny Rig.jpg

The goal (in my weird convoluted brain) was to create something tiny that could closely approximate the double side of my gig box. Something infinitely portable, but useful. Oddly enough, the biggest step in this journey was the purchase of the Yamahiko. It really opened my mind up to just how good of a setup I could create with just a little effort on my part. Version two of the phase box will include a third channel that will accept a microphone.

Weird post script... the Felix was the thing that actually pushed me in this direction. When I use the Yamahiko as a dual pickup, I lose my XLR channel. So I wanted to see if I could build something that let me split the Yamahiko, adjust phase, and have a microphone as well, all while keeping it in a tiny box. Consider it an academic challenge with a potential real world (yet likely unnecessary) application.

Even weirder post post script... when my turn comes around for the Red Eye testing, I'll probably build out one of the boards as just a phase/summing mixer and no preamp or tone stack just to see how it interacts with that Red Eye. That's the one that really intrigues me. A Yamahiko, with the ability to split the pickups, flip the phase, and run it into some weird preamp that everyone is in love with right now? Interesting...
 
I too, am running the "E side" right into my AI head/DbShot (Rick modded for 10MΩ) and I ride the HPF as needed.

Agreed, Im loving it @Hasty ! I'd love to build one for myself, but soldering skills are where my knowledge ends—the PCBs and wiring im at a loss-would need guidance. (IM more of the "LEGO tinkerer"—if the blocks are there I'll put it together :roflmao:)
 
So I decided to throw together a quick little demo of the preamp with the Yamahiko. I don't recall seeing many videos that includes how a phase switch can change things up, so here's something.

The intermittent click type sound you hear is something going on with my Mac or my interface... I'm wondering if it's a memory issue. Just wanted you to know it wasn't the preamp.

 
Did a hired gun gig with a big band last night and got to test the new phase-preamp box and the MAS16. While it's not quite up to par with the Grace Felix, it was really pleasant to use. The stage was pretty big and boomy, so I flipped the phase switches until I found a tone I liked. Took about 15 seconds, then a little fiddling with the tone stack at sound check (ended up with bass at 10:00, treble at 2:00).

I cannot overstate just how nice it is to control the phase on a dual element Yamahiko. It completely opens this thing up and elevates it above any other piezo based pickup I've ever used.

As for the home-brew preamp... it does exactly what it needs to do. No matter what, it's earned a spot as a solid option and/or backup device in the gear bag. It's relatively tiny, battery powered, and minimalistic enough (considering the confines of how it's meant to be used) to be a serious contender for me. There are better commercial options available, but I love to tinker and this thing is pretty cool.
 
Did a hired gun gig with a big band last night and got to test the new phase-preamp box and the MAS16. While it's not quite up to par with the Grace Felix, it was really pleasant to use. The stage was pretty big and boomy, so I flipped the phase switches until I found a tone I liked. Took about 15 seconds, then a little fiddling with the tone stack at sound check (ended up with bass at 10:00, treble at 2:00).

I cannot overstate just how nice it is to control the phase on a dual element Yamahiko. It completely opens this thing up and elevates it above any other piezo based pickup I've ever used.

As for the home-brew preamp... it does exactly what it needs to do. No matter what, it's earned a spot as a solid option and/or backup device in the gear bag. It's relatively tiny, battery powered, and minimalistic enough (considering the confines of how it's meant to be used) to be a serious contender for me. There are better commercial options available, but I love to tinker and this thing is pretty cool.
I'm curious about your yamahiko experience before making the pre.

Did you start with the two element version or just one element? If the two element version: were you using the bridging cable as originally intended or sending both elements to separate preamp channels from day one?
 
I'm glad you guys are pushing the envelope and getting the most out of this pickup. For anyone is being scared off by that, I'm single element, E side into my amp and loving it. It does benefit from a HPF, especially when I use a 12" cabinet, but it's a stable pickup that does a really good job and isn't in the way of anything.
+1. Single element, E string side into an appropriate acoustic bass rig: best pickup sound you've ever heard!

I always say it's made it so I never think about other pickups at all. The only thing I think about....is a 2nd element! I'm sure an even better sound can be had with tinkering but YES single element on E string side alone blows Realist, Full Circle all that stuff out of the water IMHO
 
I'm curious about your yamahiko experience before making the pre.

Did you start with the two element version or just one element? If the two element version: were you using the bridging cable as originally intended or sending both elements to separate preamp channels from day one?

I started with the two element version bridged with the short cable. It sounded great, but could get a little thin up the fingerboard (like most piezo's). Played it that way for a few months. I should have tried just the E side for a while as well but I never did that.

Then I was reading through this post and saw someone mention the split cable option. I ordered some parts, waited for ever for them to arrive, then fabricated my dual cable setup. That completely changed how I view the Yamahiko, especially when paired with a Grace Felix. The Yamahiko/Felix setup is still the best in my opinion (with the possible exception of blending it with a microphone) for live performance. Honestly, it's a tossup between that and the ToneDexter... they're both pretty great.

The preamp thing is just an interesting mental exercise/hobby thing for me and a great micro solution for when I don't want to bring my rig with the Felix on it.
 
First off, I just want to thank everyone for tolerating my Yamahiko detours on this thread. I’ve gotten so much inspiration from seeing how everyone has used theirs, and their great input.


Just finished version 2 of the Yamahiko centric phase preamp last night. This one is not awesome because it’s tiny and battery powered. It’s cool for a different reason.

This version, which is what I mostly had in mind all along utilizes one of the DIY Space Heater PCB boards I bought from Nathan @Sushi Box FX last year. In addition to the split phase of the previous one, I’ve swapped out the SHO style preamp for the glorious Space Heater circuit. This version also allows me to use the ribbon mic with the same box thanks to the mic transformer from Lightning Boy Audio.

Somehow I managed to cram all of this into a 1590C enclosure. That was a challenge… but it all made it in there.

Current state, I can only use this preamp with only the Yamahiko, or the ribbon mic. Original plan was to use both and have the ability to blend volume on the mic and pickups to Space Heater. That’s what the silver knob on the side is for. But currently it’s not working right, so that little side switch next to it lets me choose which one I want. I’ll get it figured out eventually.

So a quick overview of features:

Top purple knobs- Space Heater Level and Gain

Top silver knobs- James Tonestack Treble and Bass

Top toggle switches- phase selection for Yamahiko channel 1 and channel 2

Side silver knob- blend level for Yamahiko

Side toggle switch- input selector (XLR vs Yamahiko)

Side push button- power/bypass

Back- XLR input, TRS input, TS output. If you’re using a single input pickup, the second channel auto-mutes.

This one is probably a one of a kind type preamp since I don’t think the DIY Space Heater PCBs are available anymore. They’re amazing idea springboards.

Wiring is still not that pretty, but I always promise myself I’ll clean them up later (spoiler alert- I lie to myself about this all the time).

IMG_5264.jpeg
IMG_5259.jpeg
IMG_5261.jpeg
 
First off, I just want to thank everyone for tolerating my Yamahiko detours on this thread. I’ve gotten so much inspiration from seeing how everyone has used theirs, and their great input.


Just finished version 2 of the Yamahiko centric phase preamp last night. This one is not awesome because it’s tiny and battery powered. It’s cool for a different reason.

This version, which is what I mostly had in mind all along utilizes one of the DIY Space Heater PCB boards I bought from Nathan @Sushi Box FX last year. In addition to the split phase of the previous one, I’ve swapped out the SHO style preamp for the glorious Space Heater circuit. This version also allows me to use the ribbon mic with the same box thanks to the mic transformer from Lightning Boy Audio.

Somehow I managed to cram all of this into a 1590C enclosure. That was a challenge… but it all made it in there.

Current state, I can only use this preamp with only the Yamahiko, or the ribbon mic. Original plan was to use both and have the ability to blend volume on the mic and pickups to Space Heater. That’s what the silver knob on the side is for. But currently it’s not working right, so that little side switch next to it lets me choose which one I want. I’ll get it figured out eventually.

So a quick overview of features:

Top purple knobs- Space Heater Level and Gain

Top silver knobs- James Tonestack Treble and Bass

Top toggle switches- phase selection for Yamahiko channel 1 and channel 2

Side silver knob- blend level for Yamahiko

Side toggle switch- input selector (XLR vs Yamahiko)

Side push button- power/bypass

Back- XLR input, TRS input, TS output. If you’re using a single input pickup, the second channel auto-mutes.

This one is probably a one of a kind type preamp since I don’t think the DIY Space Heater PCBs are available anymore. They’re amazing idea springboards.

Wiring is still not that pretty, but I always promise myself I’ll clean them up later (spoiler alert- I lie to myself about this all the time).

View attachment 5054948 View attachment 5054949 View attachment 5054950

Got any audio clips? I'd love to hear this.

I wish I could find a way to add a little subtle saturation to the Felix. Everything I've tried is a little to harsh and doesn't distort right. When I say distort, I'm mean like a high end tube stuff not like guitar amp...
 
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Got any audio clips? I'd love to hear this.

I wish I could find a way to add a little subtle saturation to the Felix. Everything I've tried is a little to harsh and doesn't distort right. When I say distort, I'm mean like a high end tube stuff not like guitar amp...

I’ll probably work on that today. All I did yesterday was make sure it made a pleasing noise. I have high hopes for this one.
 
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…I wish I could find a way to add a little subtle saturation to the Felix. Everything I've tried is a little to harsh and doesn't distort right. When I say distort, I'm mean like a high end tube stuff not like guitar amp...
Adding a tube buffer (not drive) in the FX loop would probably get you there… Sushi Box More

Fwiw, I parted ways with the Grace preamps because they are too sterile for my taste. For most amplified instruments the quality and tone of the amplification is a part of the sound. For some reason bass players seem to be obsessed with MBOL with piezo pickups.
 
Adding a tube buffer (not drive) in the FX loop would probably get you there… Sushi Box More

Fwiw, I parted ways with the Grace preamps because they are too sterile for my taste. For most amplified instruments the quality and tone of the amplification is a part of the sound. For some reason bass players seem to be obsessed with MBOL with piezo pickups.

Putting a More into the FX loop is a cool idea.
 
Adding a tube buffer (not drive) in the FX loop would probably get you there… Sushi Box More

Fwiw, I parted ways with the Grace preamps because they are too sterile for my taste. For most amplified instruments the quality and tone of the amplification is a part of the sound. For some reason bass players seem to be obsessed with MBOL with piezo pickups.

I gave More a shot but didn't work out for me. I am super picky. My favorite gain is on the old Moogerfooger pedals but they are a lot to carry around!

I also am totally happy with the Felix. My WW-400 seemed to have a little extra oomph and grit but it may be just in my mind. Somewhere on the Sushi box thread I made a bunch of sound samples with More and an effect rode PC-2a but when I did a blind sound test with everything level matched, I preferred the straight Felix signal. Level matching things is eye opening for these types of things. I often think I like something but in reality it's just louder. The more I use the Felix the better I get at eqing in some fatness in the low mid. I think a lot of people never change the eq points under the hood of the Felix to make it upright bass friendly...

Here are the sound samples I made with More and the PC-2a. Sound source is a Moog sub37 into the Felix with the pedals in the fx loop. I level matched everything after the fact to -16lufs. At a point I will do something similar A/B my current rig and my WW's but need to find sometime to throw some mics up in my studio.
 
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For some reason bass players seem to be obsessed with MBOL with piezo pickups.

Partly guilty! I think it's more that I have a certain sound in my head and I'm just trying to reproduce that because sometimes that piezo tone really frustrates me when playing live music, but really only when I'm doing a solo. So not necessarily a MBOL situation... maybe closer to RBBOL (Ray Brown's Bass Only Louder). I'm sure I'll be chasing that forever.
 
Got any audio clips? I'd love to hear this.

Made some sound clips. For some reason my audio interface on the Mac is making weird popping noises, so I did this with the Zoom H6. Not very technical, but it was interesting to record and listen back. All the recordings were straight into the H6 with no post processing. Just clipped to length.

Observations I made:

1. The ribbon mic really sounds best through a cab and is incredibly boomy straight into the H6. It's weird because with the powered MAS 16, it's my favorite. When recorded straight, not my favorite.

2. I shouldn't say the Yamahiko surprises me, but every time I do something weird like this... it still surprises me every time at the next great sound it seems to pull out of nowhere.

3. The tube gain/body/character that sounds so good through the cab doesn't sound quite as nice when recorded dry into the Zoom. When recorded dry with nothing else, it's not a graceful clip like it is in an ambient room. That one really caught me off guard.

4. I need more acoustic treatment in the music room.


Clip #1- Bridge mounted ribbon microphone into the preamp. Gain set at 10:00, Level set at 1:00. Bass and Treble flat



Clip #2- Yamahiko into the preamp. Gain set at 12:00, Level set at 12:00. Channel 1 phase 180, Channel 2 Phase 0. Bass and Treble flat.



Clip #3- Ambient room recording with the LR mics on the Zoom H6 from about 5 feet away.

 
Great clips! I really like what's coming from the Yamahiko. Agree with your observations, You and the bass sound great too :thumbsup:

Curious, where is the mic placement? (to me, the ribbon mic needs more attack, and alittle top end clarity. In general its very dark chraracter) depending on the placement now... try at the crown of the bridge about 1.5-2' away- maybe grab some room ambience at the same time?

Does any/all signal go thru the tube? or is there a wet/dry? I wonder how much the tube vs SS 'warms up' the signal.
 
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Thanks so much!

Curious, where is the mic placement? (to me, the ribbon mic needs more attack, and alittle top end clarity. In general it's very dark chraracter) depending on the placement now... try at the crown of the bridge about 1.5-2' away- maybe grab some room ambience at the same time?

The ribbon mic is one I adapted for live performance, like the Troll. When played in a larger space, through a good cab, it sounds lovely.

edited to add: Also, fiddling with the EQ and an HPF would have done wonders for the sound... but I wanted a clean comparison.

It lives here:
Bumblebee Ribon in the wild.jpg



Does any/all signal go thru the tube? or is there a wet/dry? I wonder how much the tube vs SS 'warms up' the signal.

The tube is the only signal path, but I can adjust the gain to get what I want. I need to do an A/B comparison of this one vs. the solid state one I built last week. I feel like this version sounds a little more natural.
 
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ahh I see (great adaptation). I haven't used ribbon mic, I know theyre sensitive– could it be used for off-micing? With alittle space between the source and the mic I wonder if the sound would open up?

Have you tried any other (LDC/SDC) mics?
-Oh right theres no mic 'blend' (yet ;)) just mic OR Yamahiko
 
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Made some sound clips. For some reason my audio interface on the Mac is making weird popping noises, so I did this with the Zoom H6. Not very technical, but it was interesting to record and listen back. All the recordings were straight into the H6 with no post processing. Just clipped to length.

Observations I made:

1. The ribbon mic really sounds best through a cab and is incredibly boomy straight into the H6. It's weird because with the powered MAS 16, it's my favorite. When recorded straight, not my favorite.

2. I shouldn't say the Yamahiko surprises me, but every time I do something weird like this... it still surprises me every time at the next great sound it seems to pull out of nowhere.

3. The tube gain/body/character that sounds so good through the cab doesn't sound quite as nice when recorded dry into the Zoom. When recorded dry with nothing else, it's not a graceful clip like it is in an ambient room. That one really caught me off guard.

4. I need more acoustic treatment in the music room.


Clip #1- Bridge mounted ribbon microphone into the preamp. Gain set at 10:00, Level set at 1:00. Bass and Treble flat



Clip #2- Yamahiko into the preamp. Gain set at 12:00, Level set at 12:00. Channel 1 phase 180, Channel 2 Phase 0. Bass and Treble flat.



Clip #3- Ambient room recording with the LR mics on the Zoom H6 from about 5 feet away.



Sounds great! Thanks for sharing. Is that a 50/50 balance between the left and right piezo? The phase switch is kind of magic... I wish that could be accomplished with a cable.