No confrontation needed. I would just say "I'm gonna move your rig to make room". Give him the time/chance to come up with a better solution then simply "make room". You may simply be helping him with the set up of the band. I'm the guy in my band that brings and sets up the PA. I set up monitors, mikes and cables and frequently set things up in someones elses way. I expect the others to simply move/adjust their side of the stage to suit themselves. Don't make a problem where there isn't one.
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Yet another guitarist rant thread!
- Thread starter gjbassist
- Start date
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
I believe there's something a bit deeper going on here between you and your guitarist. Or maybe with just you alone. Most people would have just said, "Dude, I need a little more space", and not given it another thought. The fact that it's an issue for you worth posting about here says something. I've had to tell people to move things countless times.
I'm typically a very laid back guy. I normally go with the flow and do what is best for the group. I do have an issue with inconsiderate people in general. Things like not using your turn signal or not holding a door for someone who has their hands full drive me nuts! I guess I feel like this falls in the same category. If someone is thinking about others needs as well as their own then I shouldn't even have to ask for my space! Maybe I am over analyzing the situation. We have a good band and I guess it's not worth causing a major problem over.
Some people just lack 'with-it-ness'. Let him know whats up. I guess I am just an aggressive and outspoken person [does not mean rude!] so I never have these issues 
IME, being a "very laid back guy" will get you exactly what you don't ask for. Mostly that will be nothing or somebody's left overs.
You're used to putting other's needs before your own and expect others to do the same.
I was exactly the same until I wised up. It took a long while. Too long.
IME, this is a fundamental thinking error. In fact, IME, most people do what is best for themselves to get ahead and will take up "your space" w/o a thought to "what you need". Learning how to not take this stuff personally takes a serious personality "extreme makeover" because it can be so "unnormal" to you. IMO, That's why you get upset when others don't act like you would have acted.
Not being able to control other's behaviors and getting upset about it is the best way to be unhappy all the time and create health problems for yourself. Their actions are not directed at you! I suggest you stop taking them personally.
IMO, it doesn't. I mean, the guy is standing 10 feet from you and all you had to do was speak up. You could have said "I know we discussed a stereo setup in rehearsal but this gig/stage is not the time to test it. Please take it down and we'll test it another time."
IME, not having a wide enough stage pretty much renders his "stereo" effects useless. IME, a better solution is to run him stereo to the P.A. and keep the stage volume reduced.
No, I think you've analyzed it fine, however, IMO, it's that you haven't analyzed how you respond to people when situations like this come up. Seems like you may think speaking up for yourself creates a confrontation and you don't like confronting people. Speaking up for yourself in an articulate, thoughtful, reasonable (possibly humorous) manner is a real skill.
If you respond the same way to all situations when you feel a loss of control, then, IME, it would be very helpful for you to improve your communication skills.
Your "laid back" guy description kinda paints you as a passive guy, not really willing to take a stand, verbally or otherwise, when you feel mistreated in some way.
Especially since you started the band and haven't worked out with your band members about when to show up for a gig. He shows up 2.5 hours early....you say 1 hour is fine.
IMO, the main reason the guitar player is acting like it's his band is that you are not being the leader. You say that he books the gigs, sets up the P.A, brings in more people...sounds like he's more serious than you are. Or maybe he is taking over the "band".
Since your guitar player seems to be a pretty sharp guy, and with him putting his second amp right in the spot where you're supposed to set up tells me that that he's possibly looking for a confrontation from you. He's knows you're passive and may be attempting to create a situation where you will blow up/quit so he can bring in one of his buddies.
I'd schedule a band meeting and get everyone on the same page. Decide on who's the "leader" of the band or is it a democracy?
Here are a few links you may want to check out:
If I only knew then...
Best musical advice
Democracy/dictator?
"Leading" a band
Remember, freedom of speech goes both ways. If others tell you what they think, it's okay for you to speak up as well.
However, if you're unable to be a better communicator and leader, I suspect you'll run into the same problem again with your band members and pretty much in your non-band life as well.
Just curious:
Who owns the P.A.?
Does the guitar player have family?
Is he also the lead singer?
Who else sings?
P.S. sorry for the long answer. Being passive about stuff has screwed up a lot of things in my life. Hope you learn sooner than I did.
I was in a band with a very challenging band leader 'dude' who, when in a good mood was the "I love you, man" kind of dude and when he was in a bad mood, well...
Same sort of stage space and load-in time issues as you describe. I found the best approach was manifold:
1) I always got there to help with load in and load out
2) I always staked out space for both my cab and the drum kit
3) If he was 'off his feed' that day, I gave him a wide berth, but when I did talk to him about whatever, I simply spoke directly to the issue at hand calmly and professionally.
Now that didn't guarantee he'd react well but if he didn't it was on him. I didn't lose sleep over it and he usually ended up realized he was acting like a douche and said so.
If you maintain your composure and communicate with him the way you'd like to be communicated with, you've done all you can. If he still cannot work with you after that your options are obvious.
Same sort of stage space and load-in time issues as you describe. I found the best approach was manifold:
1) I always got there to help with load in and load out
2) I always staked out space for both my cab and the drum kit
3) If he was 'off his feed' that day, I gave him a wide berth, but when I did talk to him about whatever, I simply spoke directly to the issue at hand calmly and professionally.
Now that didn't guarantee he'd react well but if he didn't it was on him. I didn't lose sleep over it and he usually ended up realized he was acting like a douche and said so.
If you maintain your composure and communicate with him the way you'd like to be communicated with, you've done all you can. If he still cannot work with you after that your options are obvious.
IME, being a "very laid back guy" will get you exactly what you don't ask for. Mostly that will be nothing or somebody's left overs.
You're used to putting other's needs before your own and expect others to do the same.
I was exactly the same until I wised up. It took a long while. Too long.
IME, this is a fundamental thinking error. In fact, IME, most people do what is best for themselves to get ahead and will take up "your space" w/o a thought to "what you need". Learning how to not take this stuff personally takes a serious personality "extreme makeover" because it can be so "unnormal" to you. IMO, That's why you get upset when others don't act like you would have acted.
Not being able to control other's behaviors and getting upset about it is the best way to be unhappy all the time and create health problems for yourself. Their actions are not directed at you! I suggest you stop taking them personally.
IMO, it doesn't. I mean, the guy is standing 10 feet from you and all you had to do was speak up. You could have said "I know we discussed a stereo setup in rehearsal but this gig/stage is not the time to test it. Please take it down and we'll test it another time."
IME, not having a wide enough stage pretty much renders his "stereo" effects useless. IME, a better solution is to run him stereo to the P.A. and keep the stage volume reduced.
No, I think you've analyzed it fine, however, IMO, it's that you haven't analyzed how you respond to people when situations like this come up. Seems like you may think speaking up for yourself creates a confrontation and you don't like confronting people. Speaking up for yourself in an articulate, thoughtful, reasonable (possibly humorous) manner is a real skill.
If you respond the same way to all situations when you feel a loss of control, then, IME, it would be very helpful for you to improve your communication skills.
Your "laid back" guy description kinda paints you as a passive guy, not really willing to take a stand, verbally or otherwise, when you feel mistreated in some way.
Especially since you started the band and haven't worked out with your band members about when to show up for a gig. He shows up 2.5 hours early....you say 1 hour is fine.
IMO, the main reason the guitar player is acting like it's his band is that you are not being the leader. You say that he books the gigs, sets up the P.A, brings in more people...sounds like he's more serious than you are. Or maybe he is taking over the "band".
Since your guitar player seems to be a pretty sharp guy, and with him putting his second amp right in the spot where you're supposed to set up tells me that that he's possibly looking for a confrontation from you. He's knows you're passive and may be attempting to create a situation where you will blow up/quit so he can bring in one of his buddies.
I'd schedule a band meeting and get everyone on the same page. Decide on who's the "leader" of the band or is it a democracy?
Here are a few links you may want to check out:
If I only knew then...
Best musical advice
Democracy/dictator?
"Leading" a band
Remember, freedom of speech goes both ways. If others tell you what they think, it's okay for you to speak up as well.
However, if you're unable to be a better communicator and leader, I suspect you'll run into the same problem again with your band members and pretty much in your non-band life as well.
Just curious:
Who owns the P.A.?
Does the guitar player have family?
Is he also the lead singer?
Who else sings?
P.S. sorry for the long answer. Being passive about stuff has screwed up a lot of things in my life. Hope you learn sooner than I did.
As usual, Stumbo has hit the nail on the head... IMHO!
Fishheadjoe
- Jul 28, 2010
- 91
- 1
- Disclosures
- Engineering Manager, Community Professional Loudspeakers
^^^^^^^^^
Answered and answered again! Lol. I almost spit out coffee imagining you subtly tweaking the tuning knobs without him noticing and just keep going mid-song lol. I gotta try this sometime just to F with my ego-maniacal lead lol.
Seriously, think that's bad, I was playing a crap hole bar in town here had two levels for the stage, tight close area up near the ceiling, literally like 6 ft from the ceiling, and a tiny front portion. The sound guy says, the drummers go up top since no one can stand up there, they can still sit.
Ok, cool we thought... we grabbed some beers, headed out front real fast to hash out the setlist, 5 mins and the cigs later, we make it 5 feet in the door and all dead stop staring, jaws agape...
Dude!!! Drummer was setting his rig up center stage, lower level...
Needless to say, that was the last show we played for a few months... we were a behind-the-music without the music cause of this guy... it was pathetic. His excuse was "No one could see me up there". Just imagine the comments the 4 of us gave him... lol.
jive1
Commercial User
Talk to the guitarist when it's not a gig, and just say,
"Remember we talked about the stereo guitar thing? Well after a couple of gigs, I don't think it will work. The stages are too small, and the extra cab makes things cramped. No-one has really noticed much of a difference either."
Or just move the cab.
Or get there earlier and stake out your space.
"Remember we talked about the stereo guitar thing? Well after a couple of gigs, I don't think it will work. The stages are too small, and the extra cab makes things cramped. No-one has really noticed much of a difference either."
Or just move the cab.
Or get there earlier and stake out your space.
