Your input on my timing and technique

[pbass888]

slow it down and get the timing right first then try to play at tempo. Play really slow at first with the metronome . This may help after that


Best of luck and good job.

 

[Geepers]

There has been the suggestion here to place the left hand thumb on the back of the neck “opposite the middle finger”. I know a lot of folks do this but I would beware. A more natural placement (and therefore less injury-likely) is to let the thumb lie just to the left of the fingers and point in the general direction of the nut. Sure, it doesn’t stay in this position permanently - you pivot off it and at times the thumb does end up more behind the fingers - but if it’s your default position you are playing with the least amount of stress on your hand.

PS: in the Sean Hurley video above you can see him placing his left thumb in this way when the camera moves to the behind shots

 

[SteveCS]

One last thought to add to the mix - playing complex melodic passenges like this are fun, but they’re actually a pretty small part of what bass player needs to be able to do well. Make sure you’re focusing as much on fundamentals, ie play along with a bunch of blues tunes, and things like that. That’s really our job, things like what Jaco did are just gravy on the top. Holding down the bottom end and locking in with the drummer (sometimes keeping the drummer on track) is 90% of what bass playing is about.

I remember way back when I was in my teens and had been playing perhaps not quite a year or so. It was around 1983/4 and was interested in all of the flashy stuff of the day. I didn't really learn the fundamentals of playing solid bass because "I knew that stuff was easy and anyway that was dull, boring and old." Then one day I found myself in the position of having to just play the bass, and I discovered - in fact it was pointed out to me in no uncertain terms - that I couldn't actually do it... I smelled the coffee that day!!

 

[Geepers]

All summed up perfectly in this short video… especially the last few seconds!!

 

[sigma88]

Another thing about the flapping fingers: muting.

Muting unwanted strings from ringing. I use a combination of right and left hand. I mute strings with my left hand a lot and I would not be able to do that if I kept lifting the fingers away from the fretboard. Keep them close, so that you can touch the strings when you want to mute them, and pressing when you want to fret them.

edit: to be honest, I do the same on guitar (I started on guitar as well, many years ago), it's not a bass-specific thing.

Would you say it is different from guitar? Or is it that for both it’s better technique that I get rid of my flapping technique

 

[sigma88]

I remember way back when I was in my teens and had been playing perhaps not quite a year or so. It was around 1983/4 and was interested in all of the flashy stuff of the day. I didn't really learn the fundamentals of playing solid bass because "I knew that stuff was easy and anyway that was dull, boring and old." Then one day I found myself in the position of having to just play the bass, and I discovered - in fact it was pointed out to me in no uncertain terms - that I couldn't actually do it... I smelled the coffee that day!!

I think this is especially relevant for my case. I experienced that with playing guitar when I wanted to play fast, sweeping and all, and finally I realized I was not playing music, or at least for my abilities I had to slowdown everything and focus on timing, feel, choice of notes and all the basics. In a way I do recognize that bass is more than playing fast lines. Groove and feel is so much more abstract and difficult to learn to do that as an amateur I gave up at numerous times

 

[sigma88]

Kudos for undertaking such a challenging piece! You’ve made a great start so far, but the timing is not consistent, and just wrong in places. You do have some moments where you are doing well with a steady stream of notes. But you also have a lot of moments where you are not giving the rests their proper duration, resulting in you coming in on the wrong beat after the rest. Suggest you slow it down quite a bit, maybe get a louder metronome. If you don’t fix it, you’ll be internalizing the rhythms incorrectly.

Thanks indeed, I listened to it again, and now I heart the inconsistencies. I have to slow it down! Appreciate it

 

[pepj]

The video is ok..its pretty hard to articulate that piece so I think the notes are under your fingers.
Maybe go for more flow. The direct attack of a pick doesn't lend itself to that, but thats your chosen method of playing.
Think it needs more violence but not too much to get sloppy.

 

[mcnach]

Would you say it is different from guitar? Or is it that for both it’s better technique that I get rid of my flapping technique

I meant that the "flapping fingers" is unhelpful both on bass and guitar. It slows you down and makes playing cleanly harder.

 

[Michedelic]

I would very much appreciate feedback/advice on my technique and timing. I played guitar for 17 years and slowly picking up bass. Although didn’t get far with my plucking, here’s my attempt to sound like a bass player. Any feedback will help me a lot!

If you have to move your fingers around so much, do it like this…

Make every motion count.

 

[JonathanPDX]

As others have said, the phrasing/timing is off, but you have the idea down so playing along with the record will show you where the phrases begin and how long the rests need to be.

The big thing many people miss with Teen Town is that the melody is over changes. A lot of people memorize that line but can't tell you what chord is underneath, it's like trying to assemble a jigsaw puzzle by memorizing the shape of the pieces instead of looking at the picture on the box.

To really understand the piece you should map out the chords and look at how each bar aligns with the chord beneath it, and how he transitions from chord to chord. That's what makes the piece really brilliant! Once you do that, try improvising or soloing over those same changes and you'll see how Jaco put it all together.

 

[dreamadream99]

Overall, I think your timing is pretty good. There’s a couple sections where you rush a little or drag a little, but hey, who doesn’t? For timing issues it is better to practice slower, not faster. Start slow, gradually increasing your speed until you are faster than the original. At that point slowing down to the original tempo will feel easier.

For technique, @Geepers is spot on. Your fretting fingers are traveling WAY TOO FAR to get to the fret, and that is not helpful, efficient, or productive. Let me explain:

Don’t raise your fingers so high above the string.

1. This causes more exertion. Relax. Hover your fingers a few millimeters from the string. In fact, everything should be relaxed, all the way from your fingertips, to your hand and wrist, down your arm, to your shoulder, your back— in fact, your whole body. Otherwise you won’t last for a four hour gig.
2. Keep your thumb centered behind the neck, bent slightly backwards at the first knuckle. The thumb should never creep around to the fingerboard. Don’t grip the neck like a baseball bat. The thumb and fingers should resemble a letter C.
3. When you fret, squeeze slightly between the fretting finger and thumb (but firmly enough to prevent fret buzz) When you release, raise the fingertip 3 mm to align with the other raised fingertips.
4. Economy of motion. This is our paycheck right here. Don’t work so hard! It isn’t necessary. Keep your fingertips just in front of the fret, not in between the frets.
5. Lag. It takes much longer for your finger to move 3 inches, than 3 mm. This slows you down. It will forever limit your ability to play faster. It’s a lot easier to play fast when your fingertip is relaxed and moving 3 mm instead of 3 inches. Keep your fingertips in a straight line, hovering 3 mm above the string. It’s quicker to fret the next note when all your fingertips are close by— just a 3 mm trip straight down to the fret.
6. Keep your fingers relaxed and in a straight line.

The only other issue I noticed was muting. There were a few spots where I could hear other strings ringing. Not for long, but it was there nonetheless, and it was noticeable. Try to follow these recommendations:

1. Mute higher strings (higher in pitch, not closer to the ceiling) than the one you are playing, with the fat fleshy part of the second and third knuckles of your fretting fingers.
2. Mute lower strings than the one you are playing, with the trailing fingers of the plucking hand. So if you are plucking with the traditional first and second finger, mute with the third and fourth finger. If you are using the floating thumb technique, the thumb will mute the lower strings.

I know this is a long post, but I never really see it all spelled out like this anywhere else. I hope you find it helpful. And welcome toTalkBass. We are all here to help one another.

 

[sigma88]

Overall, I think your timing is pretty good. There’s a couple sections where you rush a little or drag a little, but hey, who doesn’t? For timing issues it is better to practice slower, not faster. Start slow, gradually increasing your speed until you are faster than the original. At that point slowing down to the original tempo will feel easier.

For technique, @Geepers is spot on. Your fretting fingers are traveling WAY TOO FAR to get to the fret, and that is not helpful, efficient, or productive. Let me explain:

Don’t raise your fingers so high above the string.

1. This causes more exertion. Relax. Hover your fingers a few millimeters from the string. In fact, everything should be relaxed, all the way from your fingertips, to your hand and wrist, down your arm, to your shoulder, your back— in fact, your whole body. Otherwise you won’t last for a four hour gig.
2. Keep your thumb centered behind the neck, bent slightly backwards at the first knuckle. The thumb should never creep around to the fingerboard. Don’t grip the neck like a baseball bat. The thumb and fingers should resemble a letter C.
3. When you fret, squeeze slightly between the fretting finger and thumb (but firmly enough to prevent fret buzz) When you release, raise the fingertip 3 mm to align with the other raised fingertips.
4. Economy of motion. This is our paycheck right here. Don’t work so hard! It isn’t necessary. Keep your fingertips just in front of the fret, not in between the frets.
5. Lag. It takes much longer for your finger to move 3 inches, than 3 mm. This slows you down. It will forever limit your ability to play faster. It’s a lot easier to play fast when your fingertip is relaxed and moving 3 mm instead of 3 inches. Keep your fingertips in a straight line, hovering 3 mm above the string. It’s quicker to fret the next note when all your fingertips are close by— just a 3 mm trip straight down to the fret.
6. Keep your fingers relaxed and in a straight line.

The only other issue I noticed was muting. There were a few spots where I could hear other strings ringing. Not for long, but it was there nonetheless, and it was noticeable. Try to follow these recommendations:

1. Mute higher strings (higher in pitch, not closer to the ceiling) than the one you are playing, with the fat fleshy part of the second and third knuckles of your fretting fingers.
2. Mute lower strings than the one you are playing, with the trailing fingers of the plucking hand. So if you are plucking with the traditional first and second finger, mute with the third and fourth finger. If you are using the floating thumb technique, the thumb will mute the lower strings.

I know this is a long post, but I never really see it all spelled out like this anywhere else. I hope you find it helpful. And welcome toTalkBass. We are all here to help one another.

Thanks a lot for the very detailed post! You’re absolutely right about what you all said. I can hear the parts I am rushing/dragging, the unmuted strings , and definitely I can’t unsee my flying fingers anymore. I did occasionally get some discomfort in my left wrist, and now when I see all the work my fretting hand is doing I now have quite a bit to work on. Very helpful thank you

 

[SteveCS]

Groove and feel is so much more abstract and difficult to learn

It wasn't so much groove and feel - they are more 'self-taught' ideas that are learned by listening, emulation, praxis and osmosis, i.e. immersing yourself in the type of music you want to play. I was more concerned with the objective facts of music (keys and scales, arpeggios/'chord tones', harmonic rhythm and function, harmonising melodies, etc) and the role of bass within them. So I found myself a music teacher (not a bass teacher) and went from there.

 

[midichlorine]

Everyone is giving good points here.
I applaud you for going for it.

Lots of folks use a pick half the time.
Having a guitar background gives you a head start on that.
I love Bobby Vega pick playing!

It’s the same with any instrument
Listen, learn, practice technique, execute…
Don’t lose sight of the reference point. If your ears are with the tune you’ll know your weak points.

Proper technique will help in execution and less injury but a lot of famous players didn’t have “proper technique “ and they worked out just fine.
My fave and one of the best,
Louis Johnson!!
His left thumb was all over the fretboard

Play on playa!!

 

[red_rhino]

As always, we only need to ask "what would Sean do?"

Watch his left hand in this video (or any other video for that matter):

I have two takeaways from that:

1. I need to put some flats on my P-bass.
2. I really like how they all leave space for each other and just focus on the groove and feel. A simple video with a simple message.