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zon customer service - not happy

#41
bluestarbass said:
MAN, this thread is disturbing.
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Just because some graphite and carbon necks warp doesn't mean it's common. It's far less common than with wood necks. Just because people are discussing the issue here doesn't mean that it happens all the time- far from it. Let's not get carried away.

In support, again, I'll say that I've never had anything but the best in dealings with Zon. I have 1 new and 1 very old, and the old plays just as well as the new.
 
#42
I own 2 Zon (the older one is a 2000 model) and never had a problem with them. It also surprised me to read that so many had that kind of issues with the necks, I always thought that the risk was minimum.

However, the only problem I`ve had is that both necks peeled off a little bit. I was planning to re paint them with a local luthier, but don`t know if it`s a good idea, since the material is different.

Any suggestions ?
 
#43
Flintc said:
My reading here is, if I'm ever in that position, I'd probably avoid Zon for customer service reasons, and I'd probably buy one with a truss rod.
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I've owned 10 Zon basses over the years and have yet to encounter any neck issues at all. I've heard of very few neck warping issues relatively speaking compared to the number of basses that have been sold over the years.

What I find unsettling with regards to the neck issues is that Joe doesn't stand behind them and warranty them after the initial warranty ends. I know of two instances where this has happened, right after the warranty period ended. My feeling is that if this truly is a rare thing, then why not just replace the neck and look like a great CS guy? I understand the costs involved, but my thinking is that you've retained and probably gained more by fixing the problem rather than forcing the customer to pay and risk loosing him and others forever.

If I were to recommend anyone getting a Zon, I'd recommend one without the t-rod. The earlier Modulus basses were much better without the adjuster, but with the adjuster, they didn't feel nearly as good to me.
 
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#45
I had 3 zon's at one point and never had any neck issues.

Had about 50/50 issues with customer service and questions due to no return emails, when i did get Martin on the phone he is always very helpful.
Used to live close to their redwood city HQ and had a ramp installed, when i picked it up Joe Z. was there himself and was very friendly in person to deal with.

I do think they should handle phone/emails better it's probably cause they have such a small crew(Still no excuse on their part)
 
#46
Halftooth said:
I've owned 10 Zon basses over the years and have yet to encounter any neck issues at all. I've heard of very few neck warping issues relatively speaking compared to the number of basses that have been sold over the years.

What I find unsettling with regards to the neck issues is that Joe doesn't stand behind them and warranty them after the initial warranty ends. I know of two instances where this has happened, right after the warranty period ended. My feeling is that if this truly is a rare thing, then why not just replace the neck and look like a great CS guy? I understand the costs involved, but my thinking is that you've retained and probably gained more by fixing the problem rather than forcing the customer to pay and risk loosing him and others forever.
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I was gasing for a VB5 as a potential Christmas gift to myself but now I don't know...

I'm sure it is a rare occurrence for a neck to warp but the potential for it happening, however low, exists. Even though the expectations of high-end intstruments are for them to be flawless, it just isn't the case. Most high-end companies will stand behind their products and Zon's failure to do so leaves the potential owner with the added risk of paying for a costly repair to consider (especially someone in the used market).

Their website claims "The benefits of our composite neck are that it is extremely stable and will not warp or twist like wood." It doesn't say "less likely" or "rarely." It sounds like a false claim to me. The manner in which they handle repairs out of warranty in regards to necks doesn't show that they stand behind their product.
 
#47
Halftooth:

If I were to recommend anyone getting a Zon, I'd recommend one without the t-rod. The earlier Modulus basses were much better without the adjuster, but with the adjuster, they didn't feel nearly as good to me.
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Can you explain what changed, other than the truss rod? Was it the width, depth, radius, weight, or what? Are there any statistics showing that the truss rod makes the neck more prone to warping or breaking? My Modulus owner's manual says the truss rod DOES something in terms of keeping the neck straight. How does this make the neck worse? I'm curious.
 
#48
My understanding is that normal graphite is ultra-hard. If you add a truss rod, they make it less hard, so that the truss rod can adjust the neck. If it was regular super-rigid graphite, the truss rod would be unable to move and would make no difference.

I could be completely wrong though.
 
#49
The warranty issue on necks is a little disturbing.
However, I will say that neither of my Zons have had any issues. I've usually gotten somebody on the phone when I called, and got Joe a couple of times. All were helpful. In fact, one of the main reasons I chose Zon a while back, was that Joe personally wrote me a lengthy e-mail answering a couple of questions I had. I know Joe's gotten busier since my first bass, though.
 
#50
For those asking what happened to the neck:

It's around 20 (maybe more) years old, I have used it extensively for the past year and the neck moved enough for the action to be uncomfortable for me. The other option I had was to have the neck planed and refretted, but I figured I might as well get a new neck with the rod so I wouldn't have to send it in again for any work in the future.

I'm glad I went with that option. I couldn't deal with sending the bass back to them. I wasn't able to call today because I'm out and about, but come tomorrow they'll be hearing from me.
 
#51
Flintc said:
Halftooth:

Can you explain what changed, other than the truss rod? Was it the width, depth, radius, weight, or what? Are there any statistics showing that the truss rod makes the neck more prone to warping or breaking? My Modulus owner's manual says the truss rod DOES something in terms of keeping the neck straight. How does this make the neck worse? I'm curious.
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The original, non t-rod or adjuster Modulus basses had a really thin and fast neck. When they added the adjuster, they had to make the neck thicker and it totally changed the feel for me and other that were fond of the older design.

Now, I have heard the same thing that Earwigger mentioned about the graphite needing to be softer so that the adjustor would actually do its job. It sounds like that would be logical, but I don't know that to be fact.

Bottom line, graphite done right doesn't need any adjuster...my current Zon is dead flat and hardly needs to even be tuned.
 
#52
Angus said:
I can confirm that they definitely do have issues from time to time, just like Status, Zon, etc- all carbon fiber and graphite necks have the same issues that wood necks can, just different causes that lead to them.

My Modulus's neck is hopelessly warped, under warranty, and they still won't touch it. They're a difficult company.
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Hello Angus

Please PM me who you talked to over at Modulus.
Let me know what model you have and the serial #.

Did you change string brands and or gauges at all?

If you hold the bass up sideways and look directly at the neck and fret high G (15th fret) on the E (if its a 4) do so a light(slight relief) around the A to B?

I'm a bit of a graphite geek and have owned everything major graphite neck bass over the years, YES they can have problems like any other bass neck.

A and a lot of older graphite instruments do not have stress relief. (This is true.....)

Just a FYI I do want to mention that
Those that have any problems with older Q5 necks that are out of warranty there are these necks.

Invalid Link Removed
 
#53
Hey Basswave,

I don't remember their name, but it was a few years ago. But I worked as a machinist for a long while, and so accurate measurement is definitely something I can do. It's got a twist (down on the treble side) that is in no way insignificant- over .100". IIRC, it was just shy of 0.110". I was not helped with it because I was told that the chip in the neck (just a finish chip on the bass side by the 2nd fret) would've let in too much moisture could've compromised the structure. In truth, there is some clouding in the finish around that area caused probably a combination of moisture and plastic deformation of the epoxy around the chip. But to say that the moisture caused a problem in the neck that goes from about the 7th or 8th fret all the way to the end of the headstock on the opposite side is a bit bogus.

I was a big fan of Modulus before that, even though I got 100% screwed by them twice during the initial ordering process. I was less impressed with the live sound quality, but it's still a killer recording bass. Or...was.

I bought my 6 string Zon to replace my Modulus as my 'travel' bass and haven't looked back since.

Edit: It isn't very old- it's a 99 I'm pretty sure, bought in 2000.
 
#55
Halftooth said:
The original, non t-rod or adjuster Modulus basses had a really thin and fast neck. When they added the adjuster, they had to make the neck thicker and it totally changed the feel for me and other that were fond of the older design.
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What up Halftooth

I switched from an older Q5 neck to one with relief and did not experience what your mentioning. (At least not to me)

I don't see myself changing string brands or gauges anytime soon but if I do and it changes how my neck plays I therefore can correct it back to where it was.
(Just my $.02)
 
#56
HELLonWheels187 said:
Wow, I really really wanted a Zon till I saw this thread.
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Zons are very good.
Don't let it scare you away.
His neck was twenty years old with no relief system.

This Fellow named Mark (was/is) the main sales guy over at Zon and is pretty cool. I wish I saw this thread earlier I would have said talk to him (if He is still there).

If you bass is that old that I'm just about positive it was one of the ones that Moses made for them.
The graphite formula Moses (and all the company's) has changed and none of the graphite necks had relief them back then.

Wood cannot come close to the dependency.
For the traveling musician they are the best to have.
I'm not anti wood in any way, I'm just pro graphite. ;)
 
#60
basswave said:
What up Halftooth

I switched from an older Q5 neck to one with relief and did not experience what your mentioning. (At least not to me)
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Well, my older Q5 could have been slimmer from the rest, but I had two Q5's at once: one with the adjuster, and the other without. The one without felt slimmer, not just to me, but the others that compared the two. We all agreed that the older one better, but I suppose it was more of a minor difference now that I think about it...it wasn't like going from this and fast to say Warwick, if that makes sense.
 

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