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ZON EMAIL MISCOMMUNICATION : a reason why a phone call is best!

ehque

ehque

Jan 8, 2006
4,609
159
40
Singapore
ehque.blogspot.com
#1
A month back, i sent my Zon back to Joe and his team to work on. I was getting sick of the tone the single coils were giving, and i really wanted the dualcoil/splittable option, giving me 2 big MM routs which should increase aperture size and give it more warmth.

Today they sent me an email which wasn't half as satisfying as i hoped it would be. Hey guys, i really need advice for this one. Should i request they redo what i want, or should i take it as such? Im in red, they are in blue. This is the original email i sent out, without verbal fluff.

Hello guys!

I have an old Sonus 6, possibly built back in '94. Somehow as ive played it over the past year (i bought it second-hand) i am increasingly feeling that I'd rather have a fatter sound - something i cant seem to achieve with the bart jazz-style pickups installed in the Sonus.

I was wondering, if i ship the body to you guys, will you help me route install new MM-style pickups which i include (or that you get for me)? I'd like to change the electronics package as well.

P.S. Im looking at Nordstrand pickups and a 3 band Aguilar preamp.

Their reply:

We can help you out with your quest. I'd start with a set of Bartolini dual coils, the one's we have specially wound sets we have made for our custom 6-strings. I'd then choose the 3-band bartolini system with selectable mids that's an option on many of our basses.

(another email)The pickups are $195 for the set. The 3-band EQ with selectable mids is $175.00 Installation for the pickups and electronics would be $165.00

Total cost is $ 535.00 plus shipping.

(another email)Coil taps would be an extra $50.

So i happily sent the bass off. The email, which i wasn't too happy about, came today. Note that they had not checked with me whether to make the "small changes" which they did...

We have your bass completed as requested. The first set of bartolini pickups were too small, so we had to have a special set made in order for us to be able to accommodate the old routing, so the bass looks like the pickups are original. Unfortunately, that increased the price to is by $35.00

All the controls are single, not stacked as requested.

In addition to all this we had to remove the tarnish from the frets and install new strings.

Here is the breakdown for the bill:

Pickups: $230.00
electronics: $175.00
Coil tap switches: $ 50.00
Installation/wiring: $165.00
Polish frets: $ 25.00
New strings: $ 30.00

Total amount due: $ 675.00

(another email) I forgot to add that we installed a new output jack and knobs for the circuit which adds $25 to the bill for a total of $700.00.

Should i insist on my MM-routes? Also, could i gripe about the price increase?
 
#3
A new email i received after i griped about it:

We did install wide aperture pickups. Additionally, the MM style is to short (left to right) which would have made for a huge gap along either side of the pickup. This bass now has plenty of warmth and richness. You won't believe the difference! It's great.

Should i believe them?
 
#4
I am not sure I would really push the MM pups. With the coil taps you are gonna get a decent bit more variety from single and then stacked, which a lot of times don't really sound much different that dual coils. the only thing you'd be missing from a MM pup would be parallel? I could be completely off about this, but the stacked sound and the single sound are really the two biggies for variety sake.

As for the upcharges, kinda sucks, but not too out of the question. For whatever reason, luthiers do like to take a certain amount of liberties with their decisions, I have noticed this was a couple of orders I have had.

I do not see where MM routes were talked about in the first place, I would have thought that the routing and installation wold have been a bit more than 165. That is what I immediately thought of when he said dual coil barts.

For the routing part, if you agreed to the Bart duals, I think bypassing the routing part might have been why the installation was pretty low. Or maybe that is just me?

A pro to that, is that it will look like a Zon, instead of a frankenZon. Your call though.
 
#5
You did send them the bass agreeing for them to install their pickups, not MM-style, so that was that.

But they should have contacted you to approve any extra cost, even if it was $5 over the original quote.

It is common to find that extra parts or work is needed after starting a job, which might increase the original price, but it is common and expected practice to let you know, before going ahead with such extras.

Basic business principles.
 
#6
I don't see what you are complaining about. You send things back to the original creator for their way of doing things. Even their letter to you they told you what they would do. If you want your idea done then should of gone to a good luthier/custom shop. They said what they would do and you gave them the bass. Price increases are normal for work on anything car and guitar. They had pickups wound I don't see $35 as much more for custom wound pickups. I think you should pay your bill and get you bass and see how it sounds now.

Weird timing I just had my Sonus Special 6 up Zon for work. I found Joe and Martin great guys to work with. We exchanged email or phone calls all through the process. They were very good about discussing changes and me confirming the change. I would find it hard to believe they weren't emailing you confirming all work.

Last, hard to believe the Zon wasn't fat enough. I bought mine off the internet and was a little concerned with Jazz style pickups being fat enough. Mine about the same year to yours and I can't believe how big a sound it gets. My bass teacher has a similar one too and that period Zon's are know for their big punchy sound. What top wood does yours have?

I had a great experience with Zon makings changes to my Sonus for me. They contacted me about any questions or decisons to be made. I sent mine back to Zon because I wanted things done with Joe Zon's insight and experience.
 
#7
lamarjones said:
As for the upcharges, kinda sucks, but not too out of the question. For whatever reason, luthiers do like to take a certain amount of liberties with their decisions, I have noticed this was a couple of orders I have had.
Click to expand...

This is my main gripe, not the charges.

lamarjones said:
I do not see where MM routes were talked about in the first place, I would have thought that the routing and installation wold have been a bit more than 165. That is what I immediately thought of when he said dual coil barts.
Click to expand...

MM routes were mentioned in my first email. Perhaps my fault, assumptions. A local luthier would have routed new routes for about that price.

lamarjones said:
For the routing part, if you agreed to the Bart duals, I think bypassing the routing part might have been why the installation was pretty low. Or maybe that is just me?
Click to expand...

Maybe you're right. I think duals are naturally bigger though. IMHO, they should have confirmed.

lamarjones said:
A pro to that, is that it will look like a Zon, instead of a frankenZon. Your call though.
Click to expand...

The very reason i sent it back to Zon, letting it take a 300USD tour of the world by air, is for it to stay a Zon. Otherwise i would have simply sent it to a local luthier.

DocBop said:
I don't see what you are complaining about. You send things back to the original creator for their way of doing things. Even their letter to you they told you what they would do. If you want your idea done then should of gone to a good luthier/custom shop. They said what they would do and you gave them the bass. Price increases are normal for work on anything car and guitar. They had pickups wound I don't see $35 as much more for custom wound pickups. I think you should pay your bill and get you bass and see how it sounds now.
Click to expand...

Zon, to me, is a good luthier. That's why i sent it to him. I didn't send it back to him to have it done his way. If i wanted it done his way, i would have sent it off to him with no requests put in. The very fact that I'm having problems with my Zon shows that I have certain demands of my bass which may not be the same as his. I sent it back to him simply so it would stay a Zon and retain some semblance of resale value. Also Zon's bart pickups are custom wound either way, its not like i was getting custom pickups versus stock pickups. I'm also not complaining about the price raise per say, but that it was not confirmed by email beforehand.

DocBop said:
Weird timing I just had my Sonus Special 6 up Zon for work. I found Joe and Martin great guys to work with. We exchanged email or phone calls all through the process. They were very good about discussing changes and me confirming the change. I would find it hard to believe they weren't emailing you confirming all work.
Click to expand...

They had my bass for a week without emailing me, i had to email them to check if they had it. I had to initiate every conversation i had with them, checking on progress and what not. I have the conversation list in Gmail. They gave me the impression that if i did not email them, my bass would be left on the bench. I know they might be great guys, but they did not really show that in my email exchange.

DocBop said:
Last, hard to believe the Zon wasn't fat enough. I bought mine off the internet and was a little concerned with Jazz style pickups being fat enough. Mine about the same year to yours and I can't believe how big a sound it gets. My bass teacher has a similar one too and that period Zon's are know for their big punchy sound. What top wood does yours have?

I had a great experience with Zon makings changes to my Sonus for me. They contacted me about any questions or decisons to be made. I sent mine back to Zon because I wanted things done with Joe Zon's insight and experience.
Click to expand...

The Zon is, to me, plenty fat. I just have not enough warmth, not enough lows. I've had to completely boost my bass and completely cut my mids on my 2 band EQ just to get a sound close to what i was hearing in my head. I have a Sonus 6, so it has no top. 2 piece bookmatched swampash, if im not wrong.

Maybe not everyone wants the same thing out of a bass, perhaps? Maybe you could consider that before shooting off a reply. I frankly love my Zon but im not sure i could run a business making choices for my customers without telling them.
 
#10
Didn't realize you were in Singapore!

I think they have dual coils that take up the same size as some of their other pups, which is why that was stated in the first place. Dual coils can still be stacked, doesn't mean they would be of the real fat type. I would never expect that the original luthier is going to charge the same price as a local luthier, even if the local is really good. That is never the reason why people send their instruments back to the manufacturer.

You can make some noise about it, but I doubt many people are really gonna see anything too out of the oridinary. YOU may have suggested something about MMs at teh start, but it is clear to the rest that you agreed to go with their decision on the dual coils, unless for some reason you omitted something stating otherwise (we are assuming because you posted teh price of the dual coils from them, that you were cool with that at that point). Regardless of if you knew the difference between their dual coils and MMs.
 
#12
I can see where there can be some confusion about details on what you were getting--it can easily happen in email, unfortunately! But I'm glad that you recognize you were maybe a little over-anxious, and that the bass turned out OK.

Now where are those pictures? ;)

Mike
 
#13
The work seems pricey but that's typical when going through a builder. Yeah you have a right to gripe. You should get better communication when it comes to approving additional repairs.

Much have cost a small fortune to send it all the way from Singapore. All the better reason to have a good local repair shop do the routing and installation but I can understand that some want to stay totally original.
 
#14
Here's the story:

Martin the Product Specialist refers to dualcoils as jazz style, while i refer to them as MM. Basically they did routing work but didn't install MM-style pickups cos they weren't wide enough, instead custom winding an extra WIDE pickup which covered the whole long jazz route.

When they told me of this, i thought they had wound the dual coils to my original jazz pup sizes, so i wasn't happy! I was actually pretty damn upset!

Until he sent the pic, where all the confusion was cleared up...

Here's what i sent them
oldbass.jpg

Here's the confusion fixing pic
newbass.jpg
 
#15
I think they did the right thing... up to a point. They charged you for doing work you didn't ask for, like cleaning up the fretwork, etc., and this should have been talked about before they did it. A simple email from Zon to confirm if it's OK to go ahead with the extra work would have been a good idea.

I think it's not impressive when you're quoted $535 and end up paying $700. I feel this is a total joke, to be honest.
 
#18
It does look nice now. Hope it sounds like you wanted. I agree that the upcharge prior to your approval is annoying; even though it wasn't huge, you should have been notified. I disagree that a phone call is best - it's good to have things like this in writing over email IMO.

Marshall
 
#20
This is a matter of principle. You agreed to one thing, and they charged you for and completed work for something else that you did not agree to. I'd say they need to be giving me the original price. It's great that it looks like they did fine work. I can't imagine how much trouble I'd have if in my business I did that with installing PA equipment.
 

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