Fender Vintage Bridge Question

[Bongolation]

I just got a long buy on a new H1 P and a new H1 J.

OK so far...

The one fly in the ointment for me is that they come with those absurd BAII bridges, which I detest. Incredibly, these are going for $90+ on eBay.

OK, so If I can remove these with no apparent finish scarring (a big if given those finishes), I want to retrofit vintage-style, thin-stock, low-mass toploader bridges, which should be cheap from someone's junk box...but I'm not sure of how many varieties Fender actually has of these and what the differences are.

Are there brass and steel ones? What are the significant differences between the ones that come on MIM standards and the Classics?

Thanks for any help on this!

Thanks for any help.

 

[Slowgypsy]

I believe these bridges only come in steel. The main differences are in the saddles.... some have just one groove, some have three (what my MIA P has) , and some are completely grooved, (what my AV 62 Jazz has). A few years ago fender starting making the bridge material thicker, and then more recently went to their version of a high-mass bridge. I'm sure some other folks will chime in here....

 

[Bongolation]

I believe these bridges only come in steel. The main differences are in the saddles.... some have just one groove, some have three (what my MIA P has) , and some are completely grooved, (what my AV 62 Jazz has). A few years ago fender starting making the bridge material thicker, and then more recently went to their version of a high-mass bridge. I'm sure some other folks will chime in here....

That's pretty much what I thought straight down the line, but I haven't messed with any of the MIM stuff enough to know. I want the same basic bridge as on my '72.

 

[bolophonic]

I'm curious as to why you dislike the bridges so much? I've never used a Badass bridge before.

 

[Bluesbob]

That's some stuff I'd like to know, especially about what metals are used in what bridges.
I always thought the bent plate was the same for all of them, with saddles being the major difference.
The "vintage" bridge has threaded saddles and the '75 RI has single-groove saddles. The current MIM and MIA basses have a more modern take on it, with three grooves and hex-screws.
But for me, the single-groove saddles from the '60's and '70's are the best. They're bigger in diameter (I think) than the ones on the '75 RI, and they might be made of a different metal.
Anyway, I'm subscribed and hoping somebody knows more than that.

 

[Bongolation]

I'm curious as to why you dislike the bridges so much? I've never used a Badass bridge before.

One, they're ugly.

The big problem is that high-mass bridges make a difference in sound I don't like. It's a bit long to go into here, but they retain the string's energy more and pass less of it to the body. The result is that there's a brightness and longer sustain but a less complex or "woody" vintage tone with the high mass bridges.

It's a tradeoff.

 

[carlos840]

One, they're ugly.

The big problem is that high-mass bridges make a difference in sound I don't like. It's a bit long to go into here, but they retain the string's energy more and pass less of it to the body. The result is that there's a brightness and longer sustain but a less complex or "woody" vintage tone with the high mass bridges.

It's a tradeoff.

+1 to that,

Put a badass on my 66 years ago, left it on there a whole 20 minutes before taking it off and trading it for 3 pints of guinness!
The vintage threaded saddle bridge is a winner for me...

 

[Bongolation]

I always thought the bent plate was the same for all of them, with saddles being the major difference.

No, they went to a much thicker top/through plate for the MIAs before going to the new one currently used (which I don't like, but don't hate enough to change out).

I just haven't been clear on if all the MIM stuff had essentially the same bridge except for the saddles.

 

[One Drop]

There are two basic types that went more or less unchanged through the '60s and 70's, save for the saddles. Personally I prefer the threaded groove '60s ones over the single groove '70s style, because you can fine tune your string spacing.

$35 from Bass Parts Resource:

Link Removed

FWIW I'm a big fan of these bridges, they are a part of the classic Fender sound to my ears. I like the lesser sustain and the woody properties they let come through.

 

[mikeswals]

I prefer the stockers too, and I like the threaded spiral 60's style ones of the bunch. Just like One Drop mentioned, it gives you the ability to place your preferred string spacing.

Basically as long as it has the 5 mounting screws you're fine, all will work. The MIM versions are just fine too.
The MIJ ones however they use skinnier saddles, very skinnier saddles height screws, and intonation screws...kind way to cheap and flimsy to me.

 

[9mmMike]

I recently bought a Fender "Vintage Bridge" thad used allen-heads instead of slotted screws for the saddles height adjusters. I hate it. Not sure what model Fender these come on but I much prefer the slotted screws. Others I have bought new have the "correct" screws. Once it is set, I don't mess with it but I can never find the correct wrench for those dang allens.
If it matters.....

Also, I have recently built three parts basses from HWY-1 bodies. These are my favorites. At least one had a BA bridge and it left an impression in the paint. No big deal though.

 

[Bluesbob]

I'd still like to know if there are different metals used - say brass vs. steel - and what the effects are (if any).

 

[walterw]

i'd avoid the single-groove versions like the plague; they always have gaps between the saddles forced by the strings, so they drift, rattle, and get out of adjustment. (note the G saddle gap)

the threaded-rod type (leo's actual design AFAIK) don't have this problem; when you spread the strings out to get the spacing right, it forces the outer saddles in against the middle saddles, so everything gets held tightly together for better tone and sustain, and no rattle or adjustment drift.

plus, the fender versions have real steel saddles (on a brass plate, i believe).

the american standard bridges are entirely different, being string-through-body and mounted by three screws instead of five.

(that said, my favorite of all of them is the first AM STD bridges, which combine the threaded-rod steel saddle principle with through-body stringing.)

 

[bolophonic]

One, they're ugly.

The big problem is that high-mass bridges make a difference in sound I don't like. It's a bit long to go into here, but they retain the string's energy more and pass less of it to the body. The result is that there's a brightness and longer sustain but a less complex or "woody" vintage tone with the high mass bridges.

It's a tradeoff.

Got it. I have been using a brass bridge from an old Fender Precision Special that is much more substantial than the regular Fender bridge. I love the sound. I am getting ready to start a new Precision build and I am unsure of what the bridge situation will be, since I don't have another brass one laying around. I agree that the Badass bridges are hideous.

 

[Bluesbob]

i'd avoid the single-groove versions like the plague; they always have gaps between the saddles forced by the strings, so they drift, rattle, and get out of adjustment. (note the G saddle gap)

the threaded-rod type (leo's actual design AFAIK) don't have this problem; when you spread the strings out to get the spacing right, it forces the outer saddles in against the middle saddles, so everything gets held tightly together for better tone and sustain, and no rattle or adjustment drift.
plus, the fender versions have real steel saddles (on a brass plate, i believe).

(that said, my favorite of all of them is the first AM STD bridges, which combine the threaded-rod steel saddle principle with through-body stringing.)

The picture above shows what looks like a '75 RI, which (I think) seems to have smaller-diameter saddles than those on my '71 Jazz. I don't like them as much as the larger saddles, and I specifically look for the larger ones whenever I need a bridge. The '60's and '70's saddles also seem to be made of a different material (steel?) than the chrome plated ones on the '75 RI bridge.

I can totally understand using the threaded-rod saddles if the strings don't line up with the pups, which can be a pain with Jazz basses. Since I build (assemble) my own basses, I make sure that the strings and pups do line up correctly - or I do it again. My '71 has proper string alignment, so I never worried about it.

My classic '60's Jazz came with the threaded-rod saddles and I changed them to '70's-era single-groove with no problems. If they hadn't I would have left the threaded ones on. But, I just feel like the string doesn't sit on the saddle as solidly with the threaded-rod saddle. Maybe it does, I don't know. I also don't know why Fender changed to the single-groove saddles.

But thanks for the info about them being made of brass. Now I know that, at least.

 

[LeoTender]

hello

i am about to buy a 1997 62 ri cij jazz bass that i have really fallen in love with. it comes with the stock threaded-rod type of bridge. now you see i don't really trust that thing. my fender jaguar (guitar) had a very similar bridge and the strings kept popping out (pain in the butt!)

though i tried the bass and nothing happened i am still not conviced because you normally discover these problems after quite a while of playing. please stop me here if i am talking crap and that sort of thing never actually happens.

what i essentially try to ask: i have a mia precision bass that has the new bridge and i love it. nice tone, stable, deep grooves. but it mounts with 3 screws instead of the 5 of the jb i am about to purchase. now couldn't i buy another one of these new mia bridges and rip out the screws and the saddles and screw them into the stock bridge plate?

cheers and sorry for the long introduction

 

[kedo]

When its set up properly, the bridge you're talking about is a fine piece of gear. Some will dispute this, of course. I used to swap out the stock (single groove saddle) bridges on all of my Fenders for Badass or Babicz bridges, til I picked up an AVRI with a threaded saddle bent plate bridge.

Now that's all I use, and Ive got a drawer full of aftermarket bridges. Once they're set up, they're a great piece of hardware. I sometmes play very hard, both fingerstyle and pick, and I haven't had an issue with any of my threaded saddle bridges.

Keep in mind, maybe part of what made you fall in love with this particular instrument is the exact combination of items that make it what it is?

If it aint broke...

 

[megafiddle]

I just got a long buy on a new H1 P and a new H1 J.

OK so far...

The one fly in the ointment for me is that they come with those absurd BAII bridges, which I detest. Incredibly, these are going for $90+ on eBay.

OK, so If I can remove these with no apparent finish scarring (a big if given those finishes), I want to retrofit vintage-style, thin-stock, low-mass toploader bridges, which should be cheap from someone's junk box...but I'm not sure of how many varieties Fender actually has of these and what the differences are.

Are there brass and steel ones? What are the significant differences between the ones that come on MIM standards and the Classics?

Thanks for any help on this!

Thanks for any help.

I have some numbers on a few different bridges.

These are a MIM jazz bridge, MIM precision bridge, vintage type single groove Fender, and vintage type threaded Fender.
The MIM are on recent manufacture MIM basses and the Fenders are recent manufacture Fender replacement parts.

There are no mounting or overall dimension differences that I can see. All the plates are steel.
The main differences between the Fender parts and MIM bridges are the gauge of the plate
and the material of the saddles.

The Fender single groove and threaded saddle bridge plates measure about .065" and .060" respectively.
The saddles are steel.

The MIM jazz and MIM precision bridge plates both measure about .085".
The saddles are nonmagnetic (i would guess brass).

These were all measured at the tail of the bridge where the strings are anchored.

Also, the MIM intonation screws are smaller diameter: 3mm (I believe), Fender are 6-32.

Here's a tip. If you are testing saddles with a magnet, the adjustment screws can cause a significant
pull from the magnet, especially if testing on a mounted bridge, where you wouldn't normally remove
them. The magnetic pull from a brass saddle with adjusting screws in place is weaker than that from
a steel saddle, but with no way of comparing them, they could be mistaken for steel.

.

 

[REV]

I have a Roadworn P Bass with the threaded saddles and have compared it sound wise to a friends 2008 American P bass with the higher mass bridge. There is a slight difference in sound but I'll bet no one in the audience can tell the difference.

 

[JTE]

hello

it comes with the stock threaded-rod type of bridge. now you see i don't really trust that thing. my fender jaguar (guitar) had a very similar bridge and the strings kept popping out (pain in the butt!)

though i tried the bass and nothing happened i am still not conviced because you normally discover these problems after quite a while of playing. please stop me here if i am talking crap...

Strings pop out of the Jaguar and Jazzmaster guitar bridges because there's not enough break-over on the strings at the bridge. Has NOTHING to do with the threaded saddles at all. It's not going to be a problem on your bass.

If you want to fix the problem on the Jag, start with replacing the saddles with Mustang guitar saddles, because you don't need individual string height adjustments and those twelve little tiny screws make the bridge less stable. Then put heavier strings on, the guitar was designed for 12 or heavier gauge first strings. You can shim the neck flat to raise it up. That will cause the bridge to be need to be raised, increasing the angle the strings make going over the saddles. It's a great term assembly, but you have to work within its design. I love Jazzmaster, and never had any problems with strings popping off the saddles.

John