How to get to that next level of smooth?

[Hedgehog_SBM]

Hi All,

You people have helped so much so far - I need to call on you all again.

I'm happy with my progress, but I don't have a teacher yet for guidance, and I'm finding myself wanting to ask more subtle questions.

Here's one: how do you get to that super smooth bass player ability of appearing to not move your hands or fingers on the fretboard?

Here's where I am - I'm past the "flying fingers" stage. I've practiced trying to hold notes and keep my fingers close to the strings at all time. I'm much better, but I'm no where close to where I think I should be. How do I get that "finger hover ready to play any note at a microsecond" ability? What practice lessons should I do? How long should I do them? How long will it take to master that capability?

Here's a related question with a concrete example. When I'm playing a repeating bass line high on the fretboard on E, A, and D strings, my thumb tends to stiffen up a bit. In other places on the fretboard I'm comfortable - thumb on back of neck, in relaxed position. But in this position - for example - playing a simple song like Billie Jean (Michael Jackson), after a minute or so, I feel like I'm mildly cramping in that high position on the E,A, and D. I
don't want to have my thumb come over the top of the neck (right?)?

It's a simple minor pentatonic riff - repeats a lot, but I'm thinking that I'm moving my fretting fingers too much perhaps? I should be able to play that super, super smooth, and with very, very good timing - no excuse. Not doing so kills the groove totally. For the period when I am smooth, it's starting to sound right.

What to do to improve?

Thanks much, in advance!

Hedgehog

 

[Where July]

Hi All,
Here's a related question with a concrete example. When I'm playing a repeating bass line high on the fretboard on E, A, and D strings, my thumb tends to stiffen up a bit. In other places on the fretboard I'm comfortable - thumb on back of neck, in relaxed position. But in this position - for example - playing a simple song like Billie Jean (Michael Jackson), after a minute or so, I feel like I'm mildly cramping in that high position on the E,A, and D. I
don't want to have my thumb come over the top of the neck (right?)?

It's a simple minor pentatonic riff - repeats a lot, but I'm thinking that I'm moving my fretting fingers too much perhaps? I should be able to play that super, super smooth, and with very, very good timing - no excuse. Not doing so kills the groove totally. For the period when I am smooth, it's starting to sound right.

What to do to improve?

Hedgehog

This is the dexterity and stretch issue. Use this according to guidance on first pages and you will be fine.

Amazon.com: Bass Fitness - An Exercising Handbook (Guitar School) (0073999601770): Josquin des Pres: Books

The one thing which is not touched there is string muting. This capability you will also have to train as a key item along with your bass fitness excercises.

 

[kr0n]

It's more about knowing when and how to move your fingers. Thinking in advance where to go and since lines are mostly composed of motifs stringed together, the muscle memory comes into play.

 

[Jim Nazium]

I understand the question, but I'm not sure what specifically to practice to develop that. To me it's about relaxing and not wasting energy. I used to race bicycles, and had a coach who was really emphatic about not wasting energy while riding; if you are gripping the handlebars really tightly, clenching your jaw, etc you are wasting energy. By paying attention to it, you can learn not to do that. Maybe by paying attention to your hands as you play, you can learn to use the minimum amount of muscular tension to play each note.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Maybe you need to have the bass higher, the neck pointing upward. Practice slowy, floating thumb.

Stupid exercise like :
1234
1423
1324
2431
4312
etc

on one string at a time, then crossing strings etc with your first finger on the 5th frets on every strings.

 

[Hedgehog_SBM]

Thanks to all for the great replies. I'll use them all. Definitely, the goal is to minimize energy and movement, and it really takes practice. Again, I'm out of the "flying fingers" league - but a lot further to go.

Here's a corollary question. I've heard of bass players needing to internalize. I think this is part of my "problem" and need to better understand this. Frankly, when I'm playing stuff I like, it's exciting and I feel like moving - even if just a little bit. Does "internalizing" mean to take that tendency and keep it completely in your brain and not have it end up as stray motions? If so, how do *you* do that? That's sometimes tough when the music is out there wanting to "move" you.

And Jim - I was a bike racer as well. I raced for over 10 years and peaked at Cat. 3. Was great fun - still have my bikes. I have to think of bass playing like keeping an efficient and steady cadence with smooth motions. Even that took time.

Hedgehog

 

[kr0n]

I'm not quite sure what you mean with internalize. For me it means grasping the concepts firmly so instead of thinking "I must move my left ring finger to that before I can go there and etc." to "I'll do a quick arpeggio with that XY dissonant chord" before it's too late and never think about the mechanics.

Like when you learned to read... You started with letters, then you got the spelling and before you know, you can read whole words or sentences at a glance. Cutting out the middle man.

 

[henry2513]

Lots of very slow deliberate practice, that's what I've found that's helped develop my technique the most. I'm talking about 30 BPM. This teaches your right hand to relax and I belie also builds the neural pathways in your brain.

 

[deeptubes]

When I was young I had the same issue with my lefy thumb cramping. I found I was actually arching my thumb backwards and locking it, and that was causing the cramp - kind of a hitchiker's thumb. I also found it was causing me to push my thumb up the back of my neck, forcing me to stretch my fingers to reach particular notes. Didn't even realize I was doing it. It stopped when I focused on keeping my left hand relaxed. Made everything easier. It wasn't lack of practice or endurance. I just had to relax and ease the tension within.

 

[Hedgehog_SBM]

Hey Deeptubes

Can you describe how you relax the left hand? Do you put any pressure on the back of the neck with the thumb *at all*? I know that you can play without any pressure at all, but in reality, I still do put some pressure.

Henry - I do agree for me that slow deliberate playing helps very much. I typically only use that though when learning a new song. I play at a comfortable speed below the actually song tempo (and for new stuff, that is sometimes VERY slow). I find quick improvement that way, and learning that lasts.

I guess this is a case where I'm learning something new - it's just not a new song. It's new in that it's polishing technique.

Again great comments - I'll do what you've said.

Hedgehog

 

[Marty Forrer]

One of the keys is to have your strap adjusted so that the bass is in the same position on your body whether sitting or standing. Bass around your knees is not cool, it's stoopid.
Another is to imagine a tennis ball being gripped and held against your body by your left elbow. In other words, your elbow should not be up against your body but rather about 3" out from it. This, combined with the right angle on your bass (neck up 30 degrees, not down parallel to ground) will give you the right shape for your left hand, and should alleviate any tension.
BTW: no pain, no gain does NOT apply to bass playing!

 

[Skitch it!]

Here's one: how do you get to that super smooth bass player ability of appearing to not move your hands or fingers on the fretboard?

How do I get that "finger hover ready to play any note at a microsecond" ability? What practice lessons should I do? How long should I do them? How long will it take to master that capability?

Here's a related question with a concrete example. When I'm playing a repeating bass line high on the fretboard on E, A, and D strings, my thumb tends to stiffen up a bit. In other places on the fretboard I'm comfortable - thumb on back of neck, in relaxed position. But in this position - for example - playing a simple song like Billie Jean (Michael Jackson), after a minute or so, I feel like I'm mildly cramping in that high position on the E,A, and D. I
don't want to have my thumb come over the top of the neck (right?)?

Hedgehog

It does become a reflex after a time, my fingers stay within +/- 2 cm of the strings (considerably less for certain fingers and flatter left hand muting tech) for economy of motion and quick recovery, plus the muting benefits of keeping things close. It takes a while to auto-control the slighter muscle control, I'd just make a concerted effort to keep it tighter in practise, over time it will become subconscious, you will 'feel' it more. A certain amount is down to the muscle memory of what you are playing too.

Are you playing that MJ line within the first 5 frets? Or moving it up the board to a more comfortable scale and less string crossing?

As far as pressure, this Willis tip is well worth checking out and keeping in mind.

 

[Ronbassman]

Do this,
You are going to hold one finger on the D string (in it's corresponding position and fret) and don't move it from there. Meanwhile, with the other fingers you play:

E A D G
=====
| | X |
2 2 | 2
3 3 | 3
4 4 | 4

E A D G
=====
1 1 | 1
| | X |
3 3 | 3
4 4 | 4

E A D G
=====
1 1 | 1
2 2 | 2
| | X |
4 4 | 4

E A D G
=====
1 1 | 1
2 2 | 2
3 3 | 3
| | X |

You're going to skip the D string completely, but try not to unhold it with the finger you're fretting that string (it's relatively easy with the index and the pinky fingers, but extremely difficult with the other two).

This will give independence and more freedom to your fingers. It'll be tricky at first but once you get it going, it becomes easier.

 

[Tom Cileski]

Breathe!

 

[RBrownBass]

Breathe!

another day...

 

[gai113]

id recommend exercise in bass fitness book

 

[fedenybass]

This is the dexterity and stretch issue. Use this according to guidance on first pages and you will be fine.

Amazon.com: Bass Fitness - An Exercising Handbook (Guitar School) (0073999601770): Josquin des Pres: Books

The one thing which is not touched there is string muting. This capability you will also have to train as a key item along with your bass fitness excercises.

Great suggestion. It's one of my fav books. Do the bass fitness bk everyday w/ a metronome at a reasonable pace. The next month repeat the exercises but speed up the metronome a a little more. You will notice improvements quickly.

 

[KalTM]

This is the dexterity and stretch issue. Use this according to guidance on first pages and you will be fine.

Amazon.com: Bass Fitness - An Exercising Handbook (Guitar School) (0073999601770): Josquin des Pres: Books

The one thing which is not touched there is string muting. This capability you will also have to train as a key item along with your bass fitness excercises.

great suggestion

I have this book as well, and it has exercises centered around each finger to build strength and independence. If you worked through a few exercises for about 15 minutes a day, it should eliminate any weaknesses you are referring to.

 

[onosson]

Just a general point from my experience...


I find that one of the best things I can do when it comes to playing is to focus on being relaxed. No movements should take more energy than required, nor use muscles, joints etc. that aren't needed. Relax your shoulders, elbows, forearms, wrists, etc. Loosen up, let your arms hang. Let the weight of your arm assist you so you don't have to flex your hand and finger muscles as much. That kind of thing.

 

[fedenybass]

It does become a reflex after a time, my fingers stay within +/- 2 cm of the strings (considerably less for certain fingers and flatter left hand muting tech) for economy of motion and quick recovery, plus the muting benefits of keeping things close. It takes a while to auto-control the slighter muscle control, I'd just make a concerted effort to keep it tighter in practise, over time it will become subconscious, you will 'feel' it more. A certain amount is down to the muscle memory of what you are playing too.

Are you playing that MJ line within the first 5 frets? Or moving it up the board to a more comfortable scale and less string crossing?

As far as pressure, this Willis tip is well worth checking out and keeping in mind.

Invalid Link Removed

Awesome tip from an awesome player. Thank u for posting that... This is the thread of the week for me...