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Music Man Stingray w/ weak G string
- Thread starter bcam810
- Start date
This has been a hot topic on and off for ages although most complain that the G string is quiet.
I have a 1983 Stingray and have found that with many amp / on board EQ settings, the G is thin while the others sound full.
My suggestion is to run the treble at 50-60% on the bass and roll off the extreme highs on the amp; use upper mids at the amp to brighten the sound if necessary.
Lastly, right hand position (moving toward the neck) will also help with weak Mr. G.
BTW, DO NOT post this on the MM bass forum as this has never occured and all the fan boys will call you names regardless of any sound clips, measurements etc, as this makes Sterling fussy.
Odd since Leo designed this instrument and not any of the Ball family.
I have a 1983 Stingray and have found that with many amp / on board EQ settings, the G is thin while the others sound full.
My suggestion is to run the treble at 50-60% on the bass and roll off the extreme highs on the amp; use upper mids at the amp to brighten the sound if necessary.
Lastly, right hand position (moving toward the neck) will also help with weak Mr. G.
BTW, DO NOT post this on the MM bass forum as this has never occured and all the fan boys will call you names regardless of any sound clips, measurements etc, as this makes Sterling fussy.
Odd since Leo designed this instrument and not any of the Ball family.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
i agree Jim.
funny about the EB/MM forum. when i discussed it with Leo in '79, he told me that he was already fully aware of it in '76.
funny about the EB/MM forum. when i discussed it with Leo in '79, he told me that he was already fully aware of it in '76.
I think EB has dealt with it on the two pickup basses which have non-radiused (string height matched) pole pieces. This allows you to angle the pickup towards the g string, without making the d string too loud, and doesn't let the a string over power the e string. You can also take the pickup on a single pickup Ray out and push the d and a pole pieces down flush with the e and g -- this will fix the quiet g string problem and makes the pickup essentially like the pickups in the two pickup Rays.
Edit: On the post EB Rays, the pickup pole pieces are not in direct contact with the pickup windings, but rather are encased in the plastic of the pickup bobbin -- so there is no chance of damaging the pickup by adjusting the height of the pole pieces, if done carefully. I assume the pre-EB pickups are the same way, but I'm not positive.
Edit: On the post EB Rays, the pickup pole pieces are not in direct contact with the pickup windings, but rather are encased in the plastic of the pickup bobbin -- so there is no chance of damaging the pickup by adjusting the height of the pole pieces, if done carefully. I assume the pre-EB pickups are the same way, but I'm not positive.
While ive not owned a real SR i found both my Sub and SBMM Ray34 to have weak G strings.
On the Sub i did knock the A and D pole pieces down a bit to even them all out and i felt this did make a difference. I also used a heavier G string
With the Ray34 i ended up changing the pup (after doing all the other usual things) and it did improve but not by much IMO.
what i did find was that EQ made more of a difference. As long as i had the mid control on the bass at centre or above the G wasnt too bad. As soon as it was backed off the G almost disappeared in the mix.
Even using different cabs made a difference so i think the weak G sting issue is more to do with freq's rather than volume.
I also found with a pick the G was pretty loud but finger style seemed to make the lower freq's overpower the higher ones, again causing the notes to sound weak in the mix.
As to the EB forums, sorry but i find them to be a joke. Its full of people praising the basses but ask for help and if you even mention another brand you get told off.
I remember a thread where someone asked about EB flats on a SR. Lots of answers about the EB flats but as soon as someone mentioned how they compared with Chromes and TI's they we told by a mod (i think) that its a EB forum and you arent supposed to talk about anything other than EB products.
On the Sub i did knock the A and D pole pieces down a bit to even them all out and i felt this did make a difference. I also used a heavier G string
With the Ray34 i ended up changing the pup (after doing all the other usual things) and it did improve but not by much IMO.
what i did find was that EQ made more of a difference. As long as i had the mid control on the bass at centre or above the G wasnt too bad. As soon as it was backed off the G almost disappeared in the mix.
Even using different cabs made a difference so i think the weak G sting issue is more to do with freq's rather than volume.
I also found with a pick the G was pretty loud but finger style seemed to make the lower freq's overpower the higher ones, again causing the notes to sound weak in the mix.
As to the EB forums, sorry but i find them to be a joke. Its full of people praising the basses but ask for help and if you even mention another brand you get told off.
I remember a thread where someone asked about EB flats on a SR. Lots of answers about the EB flats but as soon as someone mentioned how they compared with Chromes and TI's they we told by a mod (i think) that its a EB forum and you arent supposed to talk about anything other than EB products.
I had this issue on several MM basses in the past,but my current ones don't have it. I used the Basslines alnico in my previous Sterlings with really nice results. Sterling Ball has discussed this issue many times before at the EB forum. But,its a simple pickup swap. Basslines,Nordstrand,are both good choices. But keep the original for resale purposes. The problem with folks asking about aftermarket pickups over at the EB forum,is that you cannot get a replacement from EM without trading in the original. EB doesn't sell pickups. Sterling has said many times that swapping pickups isn't a problem,but if you get rid of the original pickup and don't like the one you got,then you are stuck. Buy an aftermarket,keep the original.
The weak G-string problem and the tinny G-string problem are basically the same thing, but you get different symptoms depending on EQ. Dial in the bright aggressive ton the SR is most famous for and you'll have good balance between the volume on all strings, but the G will tend to sound a bit thinner. Dial in a really bassy sound and you'll pretty much EQ the G-string out of the mix.
Remedy:
Don't scoop your tone. Go easy on those bass and treble knobs, and don't cut mids on the amp.
Use a heavy G-string.
Adjust the pickup so it's closer on the G-string side.
The pole piece adjustment trick mentioned above sounds useful. Didn't know about that. Thought the pole pieces were glued in or something.
I also have a few more involved tricks that I'll write about in depth som other time.
Remedy:
Don't scoop your tone. Go easy on those bass and treble knobs, and don't cut mids on the amp.
Use a heavy G-string.
Adjust the pickup so it's closer on the G-string side.
The pole piece adjustment trick mentioned above sounds useful. Didn't know about that. Thought the pole pieces were glued in or something.
I also have a few more involved tricks that I'll write about in depth som other time.
+1
Sterling Ball has mentioned on that forum that the G string output is different; something to do with the EQ voicing.
It's a forum owned and operated by EBMM, unlike most every other guitar forum. Perfectly understandable that they aren't going to tolerate criticism or talk (much) about other brands.
I find it stifling as well, but understandable.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Yeah, its understandable but too closed shop for me to bother going there any more (not that i have reason to at the moment).
To a point,yes, but going as far to censor group bass pictures that have even one non-MM bass in it is a bit much, IMO.
I bought a Sterling and a Stingray last month so I went to the MM forum to check it out. I noticed what others have posted here about the site. I loaded pictures of my basses both EBMM's and some Fenders and a couple others. I was sent a notification to remove the pics from my profile. So I did. I guess I can understand.
The thing that was strange to me is that when discussing basses I felt like I shouldn't even type the word "Fender" . In that respect I am kind of turned off by the site. ( Boy I hope I'm allowd to say that here).
Guess what? I'm over here. HA!
I love my MM basses and I'm sure I'll visit the MM site some more. I can say it does feel confining and there is alot of ass kissing going on.
Fan Boys? I like it!
The thing that was strange to me is that when discussing basses I felt like I shouldn't even type the word "Fender" . In that respect I am kind of turned off by the site. ( Boy I hope I'm allowd to say that here).
Guess what? I'm over here. HA!
I love my MM basses and I'm sure I'll visit the MM site some more. I can say it does feel confining and there is alot of ass kissing going on.
Fan Boys? I like it!
I bought a MM Stingray bass back in '79 or '80 and yep, mine also had the weak sounding G string. Other than that I loved the sound of the bass. Due to the controls on the bass I could dial in a great finger tone as well as a great pick tone.
Glad to hear they've since taken care of the problem.
Glad to hear they've since taken care of the problem.
It's only fair that the factory puts up the site and they can do whatever the choose; I have problems with technical claims that are unsubstantiated; I posted this in regards to claims about the roasted necks
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
(page 11)
Currently at 243 posts with a lot of praise although I don't think any have been shipped
"Sterling,
The claims that you have made may very well be true:
* Dimensional stability
* Resistance to warping
* Increased resonance
* Clearer tone
IMO, it's marketing until it can be proven (I come from an Italian family of engineers).
Other manufacturers have made lesser claims indicating that the process is for better drying and for use with less stable, highly figured maple.
from Rodger Sadowsky:
"The result of this treatment is wood that is significantly more resistant to absorbing or releasing moisture. With this increased stability, the "roasted maple" process enables us to offer figured maple neck blanks for the first time in our three decades of instrument making. We have always advocated that figured neck stock was too unstable to use."
Again, not saying your claims are not accurate, just currently un-substantiated.
Understood that you may have technical information regarding the process, testing, and lab results that are company proprietary."
**This earned me some real cheap shots and no answers to the questions**
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
(page 11)
Currently at 243 posts with a lot of praise although I don't think any have been shipped
"Sterling,
The claims that you have made may very well be true:
* Dimensional stability
* Resistance to warping
* Increased resonance
* Clearer tone
IMO, it's marketing until it can be proven (I come from an Italian family of engineers).
Other manufacturers have made lesser claims indicating that the process is for better drying and for use with less stable, highly figured maple.
from Rodger Sadowsky:
"The result of this treatment is wood that is significantly more resistant to absorbing or releasing moisture. With this increased stability, the "roasted maple" process enables us to offer figured maple neck blanks for the first time in our three decades of instrument making. We have always advocated that figured neck stock was too unstable to use."
Again, not saying your claims are not accurate, just currently un-substantiated.
Understood that you may have technical information regarding the process, testing, and lab results that are company proprietary."
**This earned me some real cheap shots and no answers to the questions**
The part that gets me is how the forum MM is really kind of well tight, or really tight or like someone is watching you closely. You have to watch out what you post or the stormtroopers are on you and then they kiss so much butt. Smooch smooch. I just know someone will rat me out for my opinions and I'll be kicked off every site there is. I really don't fit in anywhere and I've always kind of known that. You see.......I have an arm growing out of my forehead!
Swap out the pickup with a quality aftermarket,and keep the original for resale purposes. Easy as that.
Same problem here with my Ray - and I don't give a hoot what the folks on the EBMM forum say.
It's not so noticeable when playing solo at home, but in a live band mix it's almost like having someone ducking your gain every time you play a note on the G string. It just disappears. It's such an issue that I've only ever used the bass on one gig! Shame, because in most other respects (especially the playing feel) I love the instrument.
Maybe I should check out swapping the pickup and electronics at some point.
It's not so noticeable when playing solo at home, but in a live band mix it's almost like having someone ducking your gain every time you play a note on the G string. It just disappears. It's such an issue that I've only ever used the bass on one gig! Shame, because in most other respects (especially the playing feel) I love the instrument.
Maybe I should check out swapping the pickup and electronics at some point.
