Music Man Stingray w/ weak G string

[Jim C]

One last thought about the weak G.
As mentioned in post 2; I think proper instrument and amp EQ make it work fine.

Think of it this way; every Fender I've ever owned has had a weak note, (ghost) at either the C or C# on the G string. A good player know to dig in slightly harder when you're at that spot. In other words, playing around the weak G is not insurmountable, and the only reason I'll put up with this problem is that the thing has such a unique and great sound;
worth the effort IMO.

Can you get the SR sound whith a Fluffy pre and a different pup?
probably not...

 

[mmbassplayer]

Agreed. He is very rude. The brown -nosers will say that his attitude is fitting for the situation, and that the person deserved it. But the person is a CUSTOMER. and should not be treated with the level of disrespect that Sterling shows. Im sorry 'big poppa' but I used to love the company until you showed your face around the boards. You really lost me as a customer.

If Sterling has upset you that much feel free to send me that 2 Band fretless Ray you have. I will give it a proper home.

 

[king_biscuit]

maybe somebody needs to open a non-Ernie Ball owned forum

There used to be one at the old dudepit that was actually very good.

 

[bovinehost]

There used to be one at the old dudepit that was actually very good.

And I moderated that one, too.



Is this thread about basses or is this about Sterling?

 

[king_biscuit]

And I moderated that one, too.



Is this thread about basses or is this about Sterling?

I only talked about basses, promise btw, I think you did a fine job in the old dudepit -- I miss the dudepit!

 

[funkybass]

I have a stingray and have found the d and g strings weak. If i turn the bass eq all the way up it's fine, but sounds aweful. The high notes just get lost in the mix.

 

[bovinehost]

I only talked about basses, promise btw, I think you did a fine job in the old dudepit -- I miss the dudepit!

I think some people (notice I said "some") miss the intrinsic difference between the EBMM Forum on the old Dudepit - or this stuff at Talkbass - and the official manufacturer's forum.

Guys get twisted up because they want to ask about Nordie replacement pickups or East preamps - neither of which are made by EBMM, who pay the bill for the bandwidth. So they're advised to go ask on the Nordstram Forum or whatever.

FWIW, and a lot of people clearly already know this, some (notice I said "some") Stingrays do appear to have the weak G string thing. No one denies this can happen. There are a few things that can be done, all of which have already been mentioned in this thread, to alleviate the symptom.

Of all the SR4s I've had, and there have been a LOT, I remember maybe two that did it. I'm no bass fixin' genius by a long shot, but I got both of them working purdy good by doing the simple things mentioned in this thread.

Jack

 

[king_biscuit]

I think some people (notice I said "some") miss the intrinsic difference between the EBMM Forum on the old Dudepit - or this stuff at Talkbass - and the official manufacturer's forum.

Jack, I agree. Personally I liked the EB forum years ago when it was more open, but it's EB's bandwidth, and they can do whatever they want. Today, it's a tool to market EB products and that's fine. Now where did I leave my Big Al

 

[mcnach]

Then how is it that when i have the pups in my Jazz bass angled with the E higher than the G, my G string is still louder than having my old Ray34 or Sub the opposite way around?

Why is it that with all pole pieces set equal in my Sub the G still sounded weak and would get lost in the mix? Same goes for my Ray34 with Nordy in it?

it must be magic, then

And if it really was that simple this issue wouldn't crop up so often. After all, it doesn't effect a lot of owners, if it was a bad pup design we would all suffer from it.

Set-ups are simple, yet basic questions keep coming up again and again.
I think that only a certain % of owners *notice* the problem. This could be due to their being not too sensitive to these things (someone I know can hear minute volume differences ina guitar and spends a lot of time adjusting polepieces, well after I think it sounds fine), or maybe their basses are set-up differently.

Think about how a sound is produced. There aren't many factors.

I've been around guitars and basses for longer than I'd admit, and achieving a quasi-perfect balance between strings has always been (in my experience) a matter of getting the polepieces/pickup heights right. Some pickups are harder to work with than others, due to how hot they are, or their polepieces being non adjustable, some are staggered, some are flat... It also depends on the curvature of the fingerboard, the mass of the strings (related to gauge)... etc. At the end of the day it's a compromise, but not a terribly mysterious thing.

My money is still on EQ and freq response of the preamp.

I can see how EQ may affect the perceived differences.
A lot of people run the bass control all the way up, especially on 2EQ Stingrays. That is going to make the lower notes fatter but will have comparatively much less effect on higher notes (on the G string). So, if you have an imbalance to start with, you may make it more obvious through your EQ settings.

But at any given EQ (i.e: take the preamp out of the equation) output will be higher or lower depending on how close the pickup is to the string, and thinner strings with less mass will generate a lower current at any given distance from the pickup.

It really isn't magic.

Other things like alignment of the string/polepiece may play a part, although in my experience may only significant if the string is way out of alignment.

It's not magic, I promise.

 

[BobKos]

That makes no sense

The problem resides in the way the polepieces are staggered, it's a pickup issue (which other factors like EQ and string gauge can lessen to some extent). If you're going to replace something, surely you'd replace the pickup

In my pursuit of a functional G string on my SR4, I read a number of reports from individuals who tried replacement pickups without success in solving this problem. I know I screwed around with my pickups more than a reasonable amount and never got a decently normal G string. So yeah - I would change the preamp.

 

[RoboChrist]

In my pursuit of a functional G string on my SR4, I read a number of reports from individuals who tried replacement pickups without success in solving this problem. I know I screwed around with my pickups more than a reasonable amount and never got a decently normal G string. So yeah - I would change the preamp.

There was a guy on here a few years back who owned several music man basses, all of them had their onboards swapped out for a Demeter pre. The guy absolutely swore by the result.

 

[metron]

Agreed. He is very rude. The brown -nosers will say that his attitude is fitting for the situation, and that the person deserved it. But the person is a CUSTOMER. and should not be treated with the level of disrespect that Sterling shows. Im sorry 'big poppa' but I used to love the company until you showed your face around the boards. You really lost me as a customer.

The best part of that exchange may be the "are you going to order one or not" conclusion. Ridiculous. Im suddenly glad I bought a used stingray. No weak g string but the neck could sure use more stability. Wait... was this thread about string output or neck stability?

 

[Handyman]

Guys get twisted up because they want to ask about Nordie replacement pickups or East preamps - neither of which are made by EBMM, who pay the bill for the bandwidth. So they're advised to go ask on the Nordstram Forum or whatever.

Some manufacturer forums, such as Carvin's, have no problem with folks mentioning competitors products. In fact, their forum is just downright friendly.

If someone thinks that banning discussion of other products will somehow increase their own sales, I think they've missed the reality train.

And the weak G issue seems to be an age old complaint. Never having owned a SR, I don't have any useful input on that.

 

[mcnach]

Never having owned a SR, I don't have any useful input on that.

Hey, that doesn't seem to stop most people in lots of discussions on TB, so go ahead!

 

[DJJazzV]

Interesting thread for sure.
I've found that using a warmer set of strings helps a little. My favorite are the Fender 7250 ML 45-100.
Same goes for an exact set up measurement for string height over the pickup for the E and G strings. 5/32" and 4/32". The ruler for those are at any Home Depot or similar for about $6. Those two minor changes help a little, so I have no G worries, even with the G string only over the top quarter of the pickup pole.
Good luck in your quest.

 

[scraig]

Does anyone know if the roasted necks eliminate or help with the dead sound on the G string for MM Stingrays? I have owned a Stingray for years and believe the dead G at the 4th to 7th frets is due more so to the neck design and wood. Not so much on pups or EQ, although this plays a big part. On my SR5, the acoustics is bad on the G - meaning a dead sound without an amp. Also, the tone quality and vol improves above the 7th and below the 4th frets. This is common on all Fender style necks like Musicman.

 

[number11]

I've owned about 7 SRs from a B01 series to a 6-bolt EB model

The worst one for the quiet D & G was the newest one I had.

What I did was to put a simple metal washer on the polepieces to raise them closer the strings.

Also, because the string crosses the G polepiece differently to the way the other strings cross theirs, I turned the saddle around to bias the string over a bit

The neck was a different story - constantly moving and shifting. So much so, I brought it back repeatedly and they tentatively agreed to replace the neck, but someone offered to buy it from me before I got round to it - even though they knew of the neck issues.

I can't understand why a company with teh money EB has haven' t addressed the pickup issue, and also how MM fanboys overlook such a glaringly obvious flaw.

 

[Jim C]

Are you saying to set a steel washer on the tops of the pole pieces? I'm assuming the magnets held it in place?

I remember John K mentioning something similar although it might have been putting a washer under the magnet.

Anybody else have a positive experience with this mod?
Was thinking that I'd make some magnet "caps" with my lathe and some cold rolled steel bar stock.

 

[johnk_10]

Are you saying to set a steel washer on the tops of the pole pieces? I'm assuming the magnets held it in place?

I remember John K mentioning something similar although it might have been putting a washer under the magnet.

Anybody else have a positive experience with this mod?
Was thinking that I'd make some magnet "caps" with my lathe and some cold rolled steel bar stock.

actually, mine were magnet .032" 'shims' that were glued on top of the magnet poles.

 

[Ric5]

As to the EB forums, sorry but i find them to be a joke. Its full of people praising the basses but ask for help and if you even mention another brand you get told off.
I remember a thread where someone asked about EB flats on a SR. Lots of answers about the EB flats but as soon as someone mentioned how they compared with Chromes and TI's they we told by a mod (i think) that its a EB forum and you arent supposed to talk about anything other than EB products.

Quite often a forum dedicated to just one product or manufatcurer will eventually resort the mentality of "our product is perfect and there is nothing wrong with it." That is why I like this forum.