Music Man Stingray w/ weak G string

[dave_bass5]

It's not so noticeable when playing solo at home, but in a live band mix it's almost like having someone ducking your gain every time you play a note on the G string. It just disappears.

This is more or less what ive said. I guess its all down to how you play and what EQ you use.
Playing with a pick i find my tone is bright enough to help get the notes heard through the mix.
I did put a Nordy in and it did make a bit of a difference but the G was still nowhere near as prominent as, say a Jazz or a P.

 

[muzikman7]

The problems with weak G strings on MM basses and Rickenbacker bass tail lift that have been complained about for years now, they should have been fixed by now. If I owned either company I'd be working my butt off finding a solution. In regards to fan boys on forums who shout down any criticism of a product and never complain deserve every flaw they incounter.

 

[basssuperfreak]

I play my MM's 4 and 5 live what I have found is run the mids almost wide open the highs at 3/4 and the lows at full on then adjust you amp to pull some of the over tones out ie: low mids and BAM!!!! you can hear everything. My basses are 89 and 90 vintage and have never had the problems with weak G although it sounds like it is. I just checked the pickup hight it looks to be about a 1/4 of an inch from the g string and about 3/8 to double the distance to the E and B because these basses are so bottom heavy you need to drop the pickup on the low b and e and it should smooth out. Try it and let me know if it works. The sound guy should be able to do the same in the mains to make it smooth sounding and a good compressor will also help. Oh I play finger style, funk, metal,country,reggae, etc. With a pick at these settings it will probably take a head off but it depends on the shock factor your after.

 

[johnk_10]

back in 1979 Leo Fender gave me some magnet shims for both of my '76 rays and it helped them quite a bit.

 

[Jim C]

Hey John,
Like small steel sheetmetal plates to go under pups?
Tell me more; under just the G string or the whole pup?

 

[johnk_10]

they were thin steel discs that were the same diameter as the magnet pole pieces. he gave me some in various thicknesses. you'd use the magnetism of the poles to hold them in place temporarily until you found the one that acheived the best string to string balance, then you could epoxy (or use CA glue) to attach them to the pole(s) permanently.

 

[mikekim]

From the Musicman FAQ:

The pickup should be 4/32" to 5/32" on the bass side and slightly closer (4/32" to 5/32" on the treble side. This is determined by tuning and volume of strings measured by the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the strings. If the G string needs more volume, adjust it slightly more toward the pickup. Again, if you tune down, more distance is needed here, as well; but in any case, no lower than 4/32".

 

[mmbassplayer]

It's only fair that the factory puts up the site and they can do whatever the choose; I have problems with technical claims that are unsubstantiated; I posted this in regards to claims about the roasted necks
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
(page 11)
Currently at 243 posts with a lot of praise although I don't think any have been shipped

"Sterling,
The claims that you have made may very well be true:
* Dimensional stability
* Resistance to warping
* Increased resonance
* Clearer tone
IMO, it's marketing until it can be proven (I come from an Italian family of engineers).

Other manufacturers have made lesser claims indicating that the process is for better drying and for use with less stable, highly figured maple.
from Rodger Sadowsky:
"The result of this treatment is wood that is significantly more resistant to absorbing or releasing moisture. With this increased stability, the "roasted maple" process enables us to offer figured maple neck blanks for the first time in our three decades of instrument making. We have always advocated that figured neck stock was too unstable to use."

Again, not saying your claims are not accurate, just currently un-substantiated.
Understood that you may have technical information regarding the process, testing, and lab results that are company proprietary."

**This earned me some real cheap shots and no answers to the questions**

Jim... I do not understand how you are expecting Musicman to prove these claims. A video, audio samples or some sort of long-term stability test? You have Sadowsky, Suhr and Musicman all making similar claims to the benifits of roasted maple. The fact is, this is new to the guitar world and only available on high end instruments. It will take some time to get enough of them out in the public hands, hence take some time to prove. With Musicman's introduction of this option, it puts the price range in a more obtainable level for the majority of us. I currently have one on order with an ETA of Novmeber. My main reason for ordering is for neck stability. Living in SC i experience anything from 100% humidity and 100 degrees to snow. I do not expect this to be some miracle neck, but a step up from what is available now... hence making the upcharge worth it for me personally. If neck stability is due to climate is not an issue for you, i see no reason in paying the upcharge. Jim, I do understand your concerns but do not think these three builders would make bogus claims to try to con a few hundred extra bucks from you. Don't take this as a cheap shot of any kind. Just a continued discussion of the topic. JOSH

 

[BobKos]

Back to the OP - I have tried really hard to like Stingray basses. The single Pup models I have owned ALL had weak G of some sort. It could be dialed to a lesser noticeability with EQ and adding horn to the cabs more than you normally would, but I was never really satisfied with that. Set up my amp for the Stingray or set up my amp for every other bass I own. One band I was in pretty much told me to take my 30th SR4 home and leave it there! EBMM examined that bass and told me everything was just fine with it. The current new owner is happy with it, so must be me I guess. I bought a couple of HH models and the problem is not there in HH configuration. The G-string problem is a design issue regardless of what the EBMM fan club will have you believe. I wouldn't change the pup. I would update the pre to an East if I were going to spend money. Of course in the process you'll lose the original Stingray H tone that so many seek. You might want to check out an HH and see if it has the tone you want. It's definitely a much better design IMO but it doesn't quite get the purist Stingray H tone if you have to have that tone.

Oh yeah - Sterling Ball asked me to leave his forum for arguing this topic. I was rightfully pissed about his product and the lack of CS offered for this problem. Factory forum or not, he had no right to shut me down after attempts to resolve the problem through proper channels within his company were ignored. It truly is a fan club and nay sayers there get chewed up by the fan club. It's useless for information to solve this problem as it doesn't exist in their eyes.

 

[joeyl]

maybe somebody needs to open a non-Ernie Ball owned forum so that the owners can have a real discussion instead of the "oohs,ahhs, this is fantastic, nicely done" brown nosing kind of comments. And the more I see Sterling Ball, the less I like him. He seems arrogant and rude in most posts where owners show a dislike of the product.

 

[winston]

Sterling Ball has mentioned on that forum that the G string output is different; something to do with the EQ voicing.

Sorry but he's wrong. Has he ever played one of his own instruments?

I had a '92 3-band 'Ray 4 with a weak G string. The string was over the outer eighth or so of the polepieces. When I bent a fretted note so that the string got closer to the center of the of the polepieces, the G was as loud/full as the other strings, at all EQ settings. When I replaced the stock pickup with a Bartolini that had bar polepieces, the problem was solved 100%.

The EQ voicing is a separate issue; IME the bass & mid bands only thicken the sound of the notes up to about the 7th fret D on the G string. So cranking those bands leaves the widdly high notes sounding thin. Maybe that's why Tony Levin had EB/MM make him a three string 'Ray without a G (and uses a ton of compression)! And Bernard Edwards played almost all his classic StingRay lines up the E and A strings, not across the D & G.

Don't want to come across as a hater; EB/MM makes some of the most solid factory-built instruments anywhere. I thought they'd address the polepiece spacing issue when they introduced 2-pickup basses, but no. The fact that the pickup(s) and bridge are mounted in threaded metal inserts, and the bridge spacing isn't adjustable, means there's no quick & easy fix.

 

[Jim C]

Jim... I do not understand how you are expecting Musicman to prove these claims. .... You have Sadowsky, Suhr and Musicman all making similar claims to the benifits of roasted maple. Don't take this as a cheap shot of any kind. Just a continued discussion of the topic. JOSH

Hey Josh,
Good luck to you with the new bass.

MM makes huge claims about more resonance, clearer tone; dimesnisonal stability, etc
EXACTLY, HOW CAN THEY MAKE A CLAIM THEY CAN'T BACK UP!

Can't find any claims on the Suhr site and Sadowsky says that the only way he will use a highly figured maple neck is to roast it as otherwise it is dimensionaly unstable in his opinion. So far as I can tell, MM is the only company that make such boastful claims like:

" Adds dimensional stability and resistance to temperature and humidity changes
Increases resistance to warping
Reduces density while maintaining stiffness for a lighter neck with sufficient strength
Yields a microstructure similar to naturally aged woods with lower moisture content
More resonance and less damping
Eliminates the need for hazardous chemical treatments
Vibrational testing indicates that roasted maple exhibits clearer tone with a stronger fundamental than untreated maple samples "

It may be a great product and they make claims about vibration testing and a change to the molecular structure; if so provide the test results.
Don't get me wrong, my main bass is currently a Ray and I have 6 super nice Fenders (60 P, 2-70's P and 2 70's J basses).
I think they make some very nice instruments and I will continue to buy and use them, although I do not respect many on the their forum.
In my book, if you make big technical claims you got to back them up or be called out.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would post here when you get your instrument as I don't think but more than a few exist outside of the factory at this time.
Thanks

 

[mcnach]

The G-string problem is a design issue regardless of what the EBMM fan club will have you believe. I wouldn't change the pup. I would update the pre to an East if I were going to spend money.

That makes no sense

The problem resides in the way the polepieces are staggered, it's a pickup issue (which other factors like EQ and string gauge can lessen to some extent). If you're going to replace something, surely you'd replace the pickup

 

[dave_bass5]

I've already posted that i managed to knock the A and D pole pieces down on my Sub and it never really cured the problem. Even using a heavier string didn't really cure it.
I also put a nordy 4.2 in my Ray34 and again, it made a difference but it never really brought the G string up as loud as my other basses.

 

[mmbassplayer]

I would greatly appreciate it if you would post here when you get your instrument as I don't think but more than a few exist outside of the factory at this time.
Thanks

Jim... i will do that as soon as it is in my hands. Being i have owned quite a few MM's including one with the exact specs as what i have coming in, i will have a better point of view than most.

In response to the endless debate of the weak G string... adjust your pickup accordingly. I have owned 4 single humbucker Stingray 4's and adjusted the treble side of the pickup about one full turn of the screw towards the strings. Leave the bass side per factory specs. Never had any issues with the G string after that. Just be careful not to adjust you pickup any closer than this. Being it has the powerful magnets and strong preamp, your sounds will become muddy very fast. JOSH

 

[mcnach]

I've already posted that i managed to knock the A and D pole pieces down on my Sub and it never really cured the problem. Even using a heavier string didn't really cure it.
I also put a nordy 4.2 in my Ray34 and again, it made a difference but it never really brought the G string up as loud as my other basses.

I'm sorry, but it's not magic... the mechanism of an electric bass is pretty simple, and when it comes to variation of output between strings the parameters to play with are pretty obvious... and have been already stated to boredom.

 

[jasper383]

back in 1979 Leo Fender gave me some magnet shims for both of my '76 rays and it helped them quite a bit.

Now THAT is some major Talk Bass name dropping.

 

[dave_bass5]

I'm sorry, but it's not magic... the mechanism of an electric bass is pretty simple, and when it comes to variation of output between strings the parameters to play with are pretty obvious... and have been already stated to boredom.

Then how is it that when i have the pups in my Jazz bass angled with the E higher than the G, my G string is still louder than having my old Ray34 or Sub the opposite way around?

Why is it that with all pole pieces set equal in my Sub the G still sounded weak and would get lost in the mix? Same goes for my Ray34 with Nordy in it?

And if it really was that simple this issue wouldn't crop up so often. After all, it doesn't effect a lot of owners, if it was a bad pup design we would all suffer from it.

My money is still on EQ and freq response of the preamp.

 

[Jim C]

Now THAT is some major Talk Bass name dropping.

What a braggard.
John knows his stuff and has been a big help to me; he worked at Fender and knows a bunch of heavy weights.
What ever you do, don't bring up McCartney or vintage amps

 

[Figjam]

maybe somebody needs to open a non-Ernie Ball owned forum so that the owners can have a real discussion instead of the "oohs,ahhs, this is fantastic, nicely done" brown nosing kind of comments. And the more I see Sterling Ball, the less I like him. He seems arrogant and rude in most posts where owners show a dislike of the product.

Agreed. He is very rude. The brown -nosers will say that his attitude is fitting for the situation, and that the person deserved it. But the person is a CUSTOMER. and should not be treated with the level of disrespect that Sterling shows. Im sorry 'big poppa' but I used to love the company until you showed your face around the boards. You really lost me as a customer.