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SVT-810E speaker experiment

johnk_10

vintage bass nut
Inactive
Commercial User
Feb 16, 2008
21,240
23,634
Washington, Utah
johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com
Disclosures
John K Custom Basses
Having purchased an SVT810-E cab for only $300 recently, i re-tolexed and regrilled the cab to basically make it into an SVT810-AV to better match, at least appearance-wise, my vintage SVT's and VR head. it is a made in USA cab, that dates to the late 90's. i think that the cab sounded pretty darn good with the stock speakers, but something in its tone was lacking to me, mostly in the mid and highs.

the stock speakers are the 100 watt 32 ohm Eminence 10's, which Ampeg states that the cab has a frequency response of 58Hz-5kHz. well if it does go to 5k, it would be a surprise to me, unless its at least 10dB (or more!) down at that frequency.

i believe that this is why JimmyM as well as many others don't care for them when compared to an 8x10 made from the late 70's-early '90's. to me, these cabs seem a bit, for lack of a better term, 'cloudy'. i must say that i really do like their power handling and fuller low end, but everything from about 300Hz on up just doesn't have the immediacy, punch and clarity of what i'm used to in a vintage Ampeg 8x10. (and i've literally had a ton of them in the past).

at first, i thought about buying some of the weber CTS clones, but at $100 a shot, it seemd like too much($800 + shipping!) to put into this cab. and since i get Jensen and Eminence speakers at wholesale, i figured that it wouldn't cost much to experiment with a different 10' speaker, namely a Jensen MOD 10-50 (32 ohm version). so for under $100, i was able to get four of them. they don't have gaskets on the back for front load mounting, so i used some firm weatherstrip on the rear mounting flange. I installed them in the four upper positions of the cab and then tested the cab.

WOW! this cab really came alive. it now has much more transparency and detail than with all 8 of the stock speakers, but still has a nice deep, air moving low end that my '72 cab lacks. because the Jensens have a much smoother midrange and go up higher in freq response, the cab feels alot livelier and louder. (the cab also lost 13 lbs in weight as well). its possible that using these 50 watt 10's is more thinking along the lines that Ampeg used with the early 8x10 cabs, as back in the old days, they really didn't use 'bass specific' speakers, but rather just 32 ohm 10 inch guitar speakers.

i don't have my '72 cab here to a/b them (its in my storage unit, way across town), but this 1/2 speaker change does remind me of when i played thru it last, and now that i'm very pleased with it, there's no need to throw any more money at it.

just thought that i'd share this with you guys.

..................anyway, here's a pic of the cab:

svt-vr-svt810-av-2.jpg
 
WO WO WO, First off, I have never seen an 810e with anything less then 200 watt drivers. and who told you that the eminece drivers you have are 100 watters???? Most, if not all SVT810E cabs in that year range came standard with 200 watt drivers. So now, be a bit more spacific about what your problem is my friend. the years that your cab falls under, Are some really good cabinets. Does it have a speakon>> if not, I dont care what anyone says, get one if you are pushing any reall power thru that Bad Boy...
 
john, my early 90's 810 drives stock eminence speakers rated at 50W/23,5ohms. Are they connected to each other different than yours 100w/32ohm? I mean, do mine also put 4OHM together?

BTW, I've done A/B test week ago - Orange AD200 thru my '91 8x10 and then thru my '05 8x10. Second one is more bassy, linear and it has more "low-to-mid" frequencies. Early 90's 8x10 has more defined upper midrange and growl.
 
WO WO WO, First off, I have never seen an 810e with anything less then 200 watt drivers. and who told you that the eminece drivers you have are 100 watters???? Most, if not all SVT810E cabs in that year range came standard with 200 watt drivers. So now, be a bit more spacific about what your problem is my friend. the years that your cab falls under, Are some really good cabinets. Does it have a speakon>> if not, I dont care what anyone says, get one if you are pushing any reall power thru that Bad Boy...
I know what he is saying vis a vis hf performance, as drivers where made more and more smoke/idiot proof by adding twice the heavy copper to the reciprocating mass. Agility and brightness have been lost.
US old gits have all noticed this cab progressively dulling especially after the very early cts drivers were abandoned.
It isn't just the hi freq response of my old ears thats going.
 
Thanks for throwing yourself on the MOD grenade. A lot of folks have been asking about them but I don't think anyone's tried them. And Bill FM suggested doing exactly what you did to beef up the high end while still keeping the low end, and it looks like it works well. Good to know all hope isn't lost with those cabs!
 
I know what he is saying vis a vis hf performance, as drivers where made more and more smoke/idiot proof by adding twice the heavy copper to the reciprocating mass. Agility and brightness have been lost.
US old gits have all noticed this cab progressively dulling especially after the very early cts drivers were abandoned.
It isn't just the hi freq response of my old ears thats going.
When drivers are made to handle more power and put out more lows an inevitable tradeoff is high frequency response. In short, you can have high output in the lows or smooth highs, but not both. Personally I wouldn't have done quite the same mod. I'd have added a pair of sealed back eights in the upper corner on one side. I'd drill a few 4" holes in the shelf braces to allow the remaining tens to share the extra cab volume made available by the sealed back eights, and crossed over from the tens to the eights at 2 to 2.5kHz. The result would be better lows, an extra octave of highs, and the elimination of combing above the crossover frequency.
 
WO WO WO, First off, I have never seen an 810e with anything less then 200 watt drivers. and who told you that the eminece drivers you have are 100 watters????

the ampeg site rates the cabinet at 800 watts rms, NOT 1600 watts rms. so NO ONE told me, i just used THEIR specs from THEIR website. i'm not making this stuff up.

Does it have a speakon>> if not, I dont care what anyone says, get one if you are pushing any reall power thru that Bad Boy...

my cab is the model with a single 1/4" jack for all 8 speakers, 2- 1/4" for two seperate 8 ohm 400 watt loads and two speakons for in/out of the cab. i'm completely aware of all of the variations of the Ampeg 810 cabs and this one is the same as the most modern version that is still being made. and personally, i think that in its stock form,it is a very "cloudy" sounding cabinet. IMO, it sounds like a mushball when compared to my straightback '72, or any of the mid '70s to mid '80's anglebacks that i've previously owned. if you like your's that's great and really all that matters. i just personally didn't like it the way that it was in its 'stock' form.

.........and i think that any of the my three SVT heads, being a '69, a '75 or my VR IS pushing some 'reall power' thru it.
 
Well this is my thought there John, when they went to the 100 watt speakers from the 50 watters they threw away the highs and the ability to make the thing growl at a reasonable volume. They also lost the ability for a tube SVT to drive two cabinets with reasonable volume.

It takes hitting the modern cabs with a lot of power to "wake them up" the problem is you awaken them and you better have a place to put that roar.

For a guy with normal sized bar like venues to really get an "E" to play you are too loud. In this case the earlier speakers would be a worthwhile deal.

I think instead of cutting up a cab like Bill is suggesting (As someday these things are going to be worth mega bucks as vintage) Building a cab to sit on top with the midrange drivers would be a more purist solution, IMO.

BOB
 
Hi Bob,
i agree with you completely. that's why i tried this mod in the first place. it does growl at a bit lower volume now (but not that much lower) and i didn't want to do a mod that wasn't completely reversible (i'm saving the stock speakers). this uninvasive mod just did the trick for me, and gives me what i feel to be the best of both worlds at a very reasonable cost. the cab has the strong and smooth mids and highs that i felt were missing yet really moves some air in the low end.

the ability to seperately use and test each of the 4x10 loads also lets you immediately compare the Jensens with the stock Eminence speakers, and while neither of them sound great as an idividual 4x10, the combination when running both certainly does.
...............and i think that the MOD 10-50's alone do sound alot closer to the old CTS speakers than the new heavy duty eminence speakers.
 
john, my early 90's 810 drives stock eminence speakers rated at 50W/23,5ohms. Are they connected to each other different than yours 100w/32ohm? I mean, do mine also put 4OHM together?

Hi, your early 90's 810's speakers are actually 32 ohms (they just measure 23.5ohms DC resistance. when all of them are wired in parallel (stock wiring), the cab has a single 1/4" jack and is a 4 ohm cab.

BTW, I've done A/B test week ago - Orange AD200 thru my '91 8x10 and then thru my '05 8x10. Second one is more bassy, linear and it has more "low-to-mid" frequencies. Early 90's 8x10 has more defined upper midrange and growl.

i believe you are getting the same results that i have with those two cabs, as well as others that have posted their results on talkbass. personally, i prefer the older one, but for me, i think that i now like my 'MOD'ded cab better than either of the early 90's or later 2000 onwards, stock cabs.
 
Since the beginning of time ALL SVT 810 cabs have been 8X10 32 ohm speakers, they were just from different manufacturers and different power ratings.

The only 810 speakers that were 200 Watts was the SVT-810HPC (810PRO) cabinet. That had larger drivers with 2.5" voice coils, bigger magnets and a higher power rating. The cabs also had a different look on the front with a divider making it look like a stack of 410 cabs. They also had a TWEETY in them. These cabs are rare. If you can find 24of them not all beat up give me a call.

BOB
 
WO WO WO, First off, I have never seen an 810e with anything less then 200 watt drivers. and who told you that the eminece drivers you have are 100 watters????

just an FYI, the modern SVT810E uses the Eminence 86-032-01 speaker. here's a link to a dealer that sells them individually for replacement:
Invalid Link Removed

i don't know where you're getting your information?

BTW, Bob (rbonner) is exactly right about the 200 watt 10's that ampeg also used in a different, higher power cab.
 
Those crap speakers cost 101 Euros? Sheesh! I'd rather have the Mods. Got a 12" Mod in a little Airline tube amp from '62 I have. Surprisingly good for a $35 speaker.

I wish Ampeg would offer the 810E with your choice of high wattage drivers or low wattage drivers. Oh well, not my headache, I guess. -I- have a straightback with CTS's....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
 
John, you mentioned that neither speaker in a group of 4 has a strong enough sound on its own, but you also said the Mods sound a lot like the CTS's. In your expert opinion, do you think that if you filled the cab with Mods that it would sound more like a CTS loaded cab? Do you think the Mods would beef themselves up well in a group of 8?

Here's one a little more general...has anyone ever sat down with a CTS loaded straightback and measured its freq specs? I'm asking because if the current 10"s top out at 5k, the CTS's would have to top out a little higher, right? Or would it just be more prominent? And on the bottom end, would the current cab's low end of 55 hz be even higher in the straightback?
 
John, you mentioned that neither speaker in a group of 4 has a strong enough sound on its own, but you also said the Mods sound a lot like the CTS's. In your expert opinion, do you think that if you filled the cab with Mods that it would sound more like a CTS loaded cab? Do you think the Mods would beef themselves up well in a group of 8?

i thought about trying 8 of them, but decided that i already did like the low end of the cab, but the mids & highs were lacking. i do think that 8 of the mods would sound pretty good, but since they have such a low xmax rating, they wouldn't be able to go all that low.

Here's one a little more general...has anyone ever sat down with a CTS loaded straightback and measured its freq specs? I'm asking because if the current 10"s top out at 5k, the CTS's would have to top out a little higher, right? Or would it just be more prominent? And on the bottom end, would the current cab's low end of 55 hz be even higher in the straightback?

i haven't measured the CTS 10's, but i don't think that they go up much higher than 5kHz, and i don't think that they go down to 55Hz either. the current cab has about the same cu ft. so i don't think that it would make that big of a difference on which cab you used, although IME, generally, the deeper the cab, the more low end it produces (as in the 410HLF compared to a 610HLF).
 
Having purchased an SVT810-E cab for only $300 recently, i re-tolexed and regrilled the cab to basically make it into an SVT810-AV to better match, at least appearance-wise, my vintage SVT's and VR head.

First off, very nice job! Could you please divulge your exact methodology to regrill this fine cab? It looks very taught and straight. I've seen others mention their technique at re-tolexing but the re-grill is a well-kept secret ;)
 
I'm actually going to go the other way for an experiment. I'm going to put a set of the BP102-8 Legends in the 810E cab I'm restoring.

See what happens. I suppose i could strip the 4 OHMers out of the 410HLF and put them in the top hole, just like John did and try them out, compare against the 32 ohmers. However I will lose considerable power doing such with one section at 8 ohms.

I suppose I could drive two different amps, one at 4 ohms and one channel and one at 8 and mono-block.

I'd still be pumping more power to the mono-block set at 8 ohms.

It could be a fun test, beats buying 8 new speakers when I already have 4 here I could be trying.

The legends are 200 Watt speakers too so I could really kick them in the pants...

BOB
 
First off, very nice job! Could you please divulge your exact methodology to regrill this fine cab? It looks very taught and straight. I've seen others mention their technique at re-tolexing but the re-grill is a well-kept secret ;)
I can do re-grilling. It's not hard. And in pictures, you can't even see how the cloth flaps when I play through it ;)
 
I love all the mad scientist stuff...

It was just like yesterday I heard the words from the Dean.

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy and your conclusions are highly questionable. You're a poor scientist, Doctor Bonner, and you have no place in this department or in this University.

Yeah but the Students Love Us.....

BOB