Double Bass still liking the DYN-B

PB+J said:

I know these just don't work for some people, but I've had mine on for four years now and it's mostly been great. Like any pickup, I had to learn how to EQ it. It often seems to benefit from the notch filter on the AI clarus that I use--somewhere in the high mids, depending on the room. It also sometimes does better if I roll back the bass a bit. The phase reversal has been a lifesaver now and then.

I moved it once, maybe twice, but it has basically never left the top of my bass since I found what seems to be the sweet spot. It's not as good as a mic on a stand but I never get that piezo sound that used to drive me nuts. It's not good for really high volume but really at that point why not bust out the slab.

It has worked well for me, through four years of small time local gigs in all kinds of rooms.

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Ditto.

Going on a decade with mine now.

I think it is a pickup that once you are used to it, is easy to get a mic like sound out of, but has a bit of a learning curve. Tons of people here have tried them for a short period and given up, or tried them through inappropriate equipment. It isn't magic, but when used as advertised, it just works.

Hi all,

this seems like a good place to post what I thought might eventually evolve into a review, but then again...

I´ve had the dyn-b for not very long yet, but did some research and have to say: If you know how, and your bass delivers, it´s a fantastic system.

PREFACE: I was pretty skeptical. Schertlers price policy in Europe is something I intensely disapprove of. I would NEVER have bought the pickup new, conisdering that it costs roughly 750 Euros WITHOUT the preamp (here in Denmark). I bought it used, and that was a good deal for me. Kind of like the backdoor entrance to the snob club.

On with it. I did two tests. First, I recorded the bass with the pickup. Both direct and with the pre-aII.

The direct sound was very promising, but a little muff. Not very brilliant-sounding, like treble all the way off on a stereo set. But it already showed great potential, having the dynamic characteristics of a microphone (as opposed to piezos or electrets, they tend to compress more or less IMO). That what makes the sound so acoustic and true. It came across a little midrangy, nosy, though.
With the pre-aII, it was a huge difference. Unlike cranking up the highs in Logic Express´s EQ, the preamp really worked well and gave a much more transparent, airy sound. Suddenly it sounded VERY true. Unlike any other pickup I have tried. Cranking up the treble really high and the bass a little up seemed to very much tame the midrange. It sounded so good that I gave it a shot with the bow, and that was by far the best sounding bow recording that you could possibly get out of any pickup system, IMO. Add a tiny little bit of reverb and you forget it´s a pickup. Really.
-I have not used the resonance filter though, as I could not quite figure out what it does (more on that and other strangeties later on).

This test is a little useless, in that it´s highly unlikely anyone ever records his or her bass with just a pickup, even a very good one. Why not just use a very big great microphone, or better, several microphones, instead, when in the studio cabin? Why would anyone use a pickup there? To be honest, I don´t know, but with the Schertler, you could, and it wouldn´t totally suck. It would be very ok, really. Though not as good as microphones. So...

The second test is more real-worldish. In any realworld case, how well a pickup works is determined by the way it works with amplification, and IMO this has to be understood as testing how the amped sound and the sound that the bass emits acoustically work together to form a good result. It kinda reminds me of these funny clips about the "BLENDER", because the big question is "Will it blend?" (in case you don´t know what I´m talking about, google "will it blend?").

So I hooked the pickup to an AI Contra II. The findings in this test were, well, interesting.
Pure without the preamp, the dyn-b was honkermaster. Midrange galore, lots of nose, you name it. May in part be due to the pickup placement, as I have not really experimented with that, just did something roughly the same as on the pictures in the manual. Neither
the AI notch filter nor the mid controls could tame that one completely. But it was kinda loud (as opposed to what others say). Working considerably on all the eq controls (I ended up with a weird setting cranking the trebles and highs almost full up, the bass 3/4 up and the mids totally out) kind of tamed the honkerbeast, but I was not too happy with this. But it still was loud. Louder than with the preamp.

With the pre-aII, the common recommendation is to use the effects return as the input so you only use the poweramp-stage and avoid any coloring the amp might give (well, AI doesn´t color so much). That didn´t give great volume (due in part maybe to another preamp strangety I´m about to mention later on). Sounded good, but I discarded this because it was not very loud. Not loud at all, really.
So, into the main input. That again worked quite well, because the eq possibilities and AI´s preamp section provide means to higher volume obviously. There´s the control needed to tame the midrange honkermonster, and maybe the impedance fits a little better than direct into amp. That´s what I´ll use from now on. I can´t wait to use it on stage, and in rehearsals with one particularly loud band I´m playing in.

I might add that I never had any feedback issues. And I was getting quite loud at some point.

PRE-AII PREAMP weirdnesses. Input from experienced users appreciated.

-I have no real clue what the resonance does. I tried the extreme positions first to get a grip on the workings, but: Turning it all left for example boosted some frequency so much it distorted the signal. Turning it up all the way to the right (like, full on) made it sound hollow and a little boxy. The inbetweens were not really useful either. The whole thing didn´t seem too intuitive. I will try this again one day, but for now I better leave this thing alone and firmly fixed in neutral position.

-The manual says the external adapter should provide something between 12 and 20 volts, thus the 15 volts I use seem ok (I use this one because I had it lying around, and I bought the preamp and the pickup used from USA, where they have different connectors and a different voltage (117V as opposed to 230 in Europe), thus the adapter that came with it is useless here). However, the voltage might be the culprit to the gain on the preamp being REALLY sensitive. I can only turn up 1/8, and everything higher leads to distortion. The gain curve seems to be really steep, as turning it all down almost doesn´t give any input. So you turn it 3-4 ticks and the thing screams with input, and everything higher results in heavy metal.
I don´t know, it might me my bass (it´s a rather loud one). But I´ll have to work with the preamp more to be really confident and content. As I said, any input is highly appreciated.

Even in spite of the weirdnesses with the preamp, I really love the system. Of all the systems I tried, it´s the most natural sounding way of amplifying the bass and not getting feedback. It has the punchy truth of a microphone. I don´t think I´m going back to anything piezo or electret soon. Or at all. Well- wait until I have to play 8x10"-like loud...

Plus, I really dig that finally, I can leave the bridge wings and feet alone when amplifying. I always felt strange with anything under the foot (realist, b-band), and in the wings (b-band, underwood, whatnot). That´s my main reason not to try the tobytimber, even though it got considerably less surgery-like with the second version (I totally loathe drilling a hole in a bridge foot). Still, it´s fixed between bridge and top, and to me this is just... well, strange. It´s just me, but I don´t want it anymore.

Best
Sidecar

Sent you a PM, but I'll post a shorter version here in case others have had this problem.

You are overdriving the signal.

1) Going into an amp rather than a powered speaker is not ideal for the Dyn B + Preamp. Use the dry output which only activates the gain and the resonance knob.
2) Use the resonance knob!! It was designed to cut that nasty frequency so turn it all the way clockwise so it can nothc.
3) Start with the preamp gain around 40-50% and adjust volume on your amp as needed.

Although I get a great result with the Dyn B, Preamp, and my Markbass, I do a lot of eq'ing to make it sound as good as going straight out of the preamp to a PA or powered speaker.

Monte said:

Sent you a PM, but I'll post a shorter version here in case others have had this problem.

You are overdriving the signal.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the PM, and this shorter version. Sounds logical, but the problem appears also when recording out of the pre-AII, and it´s on both the dry and the normal out. The overdrive seems to happen in the pre-AII already, at least it looks like this. But I´ll give it some more testing today.

Best, and thanks,

Sidecar

Hi

I’m using the Dyn-B for a couple months now and i’m very happy
I’ve invested allot of time to found the best spot for it on my bass, and I found out that it worked very well right under the bridge foot, on the bass side.
First I use it directly to the AI Clarus, I had to use the notch and it was ok. Could’t use the XLR input because the signal is too hot for the AI.
But then on a rehearsal I didn’t take my amp because I was going to use the Roland amp that exists on the rehearsal room, and it was terrible, I was on feedback land. I found out I needed something to “domesticate the beast”
After some investigation I found that the Shcertler wouldn’t help me because the resonance filter is fixed to a frequency that was not causing me any kind of problems.
I bought the Presonus EQ3B, a very affordable full parametric 3 band equalizer, and that really does it for me, I have taken out the 2 most resonant frequencies and now I have a very flat response, very close to a mic.
I’m still optimising my sound with the Presonus EQ3B but what I have acoumplished so far is very satisfying.

Best regards

Edit: By the way, now I can get really very loud, fortunately I don’t need to, but is good to know I can if I have to.

jmmcc said:

Hi

I’m using the Dyn-B for a couple months now and i’m very happy
I’ve invested allot of time to found the best spot for it on my bass, and I found out that it worked very well right under the bridge foot, on the bass side.
First I use it directly to the AI Clarus, I had to use the notch and it was ok. Could’t use the XLR input because the signal is too hot for the AI.
But then on a rehearsal I didn’t take my amp because I was going to use the Roland amp that exists on the rehearsal room, and it was terrible, I was on feedback land. I found out I needed something to “domesticate the beast”
After some investigation I found that the Shcertler wouldn’t help me because the resonance filter is fixed to a frequency that was not causing me any kind of problems.
I bought the Presonus EQ3B, a very affordable full parametric 3 band equalizer, and that really does it for me, I have taken out the 2 most resonant frequencies and now I have a very flat response, very close to a mic.
I’m still optimising my sound with the Presonus EQ3B but what I have acoumplished so far is very satisfying.

Best regards

Edit: By the way, now I can get really very loud, fortunately I don’t need to, but is good to know I can if I have to.

Click to expand...

Interesting....I really like the idea of using the parametric rather than preamp.

Do you mind telling how you set the Presonus? I'd love to try notching those frequencies on my parametric and see how it does.

Monte said:

Interesting....I really like the idea of using the parametric rather than preamp.

Do you mind telling how you set the Presonus? I'd love to try notching those frequencies on my parametric and see how it does.

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Hi, Monte

I really can’t say exactly the frequencies because there aren’t many references on the front panel. I can say that the first band is set at 1,5 o’clock and the second about 10 o’clock. That’s probably around 120 Hz and 500 Hz.
I can explain how I get there, and maybe it would be more useful since all basses are different and pickup positioning really changes things.

I have the FullCircle mounted on my bass, and I will let it there forever because for me it’s a very good pickup and it will be there as an emergency backup.
The FC has a very even response thru the entire fingerboard and I am used to that.
When I put the Dyn-B, that even response disappeared, around the B notes on different octaves I’ve noticed a very audible increase of volume.

For the first time I start using the notch filter of the Clarus, I was not completely satisfied but it solved the problem.

After the experience with the Roland amp I start searching for a small/portable solution, because I love this pickup and there are many times in with I have to use any bass amp available or plug directly to a DI, and I love when the sound guys tell me that they just didn’t have to EQ my sound.

The Schertler Preamp notch is fixed at 180Hz=F#, my annoying frequency was about 116/123=Bb/B, so it was not going to make any difference. Maybe it can make a huge difference in the overall tone, I’ve never tried it, but it was not going to solve this particular problem. I needed a notch in a box, a full parametric seemed to be the best solution.
The input impedance of the Presonus is the same of the Schertler pre, it’s very affordable and looks resistant.

How did I do it:
I’ve put the amp on top of a table and the bass right in front of it about 3 meters away. My cab is a PJB 4B by the way.
Set the 3 Q of the EQ to the highest possible so I could use them like notches.
Set the amp volume to maximum and then started to raise slowly the gain. First I got a low freq. feedback. Put the volume at -12 on the first band and started searching for it when it stopped I continued to increase gain until another feedback happens, lucky for me it was a mid, same procedure with the second band. Continued to increase volume and I reached maximum gain available.
I was stupidly loud, never played with volume and gain fully open. I’ve played a couple of notes just to try it but it was too uncomfortable, too loud.
Put the amp’s gain and volume at 12 o clock and started raising the EQ’s volumes of the notched frequencies (- 12 db is too much and it killed my tone) until it feels nice.

Last night I did a Piano and Bass duo, large room, the PA was very good and wisely spread thru the room and maintaining an acoustic volume was a must.
There where good quality monitoring, the sound guy was very trustable, so in order to avoid unnecessary acoustic pressure I decided to not use my amp.
I just used this EQ directly to the mixer, no DI. It worked very well.
I wish I had more gigs like this

The “sounds like my bass only louder” it’s a very strange concept for me. I can only say that it sounds very much like a mic without the feedbacks, and a lot more real than the Full Circle that I do love and honestly recommend.

Sorry for the long post.

Best regards

Well, picked up the Presonus on Ebay.....if it works as well as I think I probably won't bother with a mic anymore. I can get pretty darn close to a mic sound with my Dyn B and PreAIII already, and this just has better EQ options than just the one notch.

I already did this to some extent back when I was using the Dyn B -> Behringer Parametric EQ -> Mackie 4 channel Board -> 2 Pub speakers.

Sounded great with me, vocalist, and keyboard, but I got rid of that system because it was so complicated to set up and got me a Bose PAS for those gigs. This will be a lot simpler and should sound fantastic with the Bose as well as the Markbass.

I wish you good luck
Hope it works fine with you too.
I’m wondering, maybe it could help with some microphone feedbacks too, I had never thinked about it…

Best Regards

Monte said:

Well, picked up the Presonus on Ebay.....if it works as well as I think I probably won't bother with a mic anymore. I can get pretty darn close to a mic sound with my Dyn B and PreAIII already, and this just has better EQ options than just the one notch.

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Oh my freaking goodness.......if Schertler would just sell a parametric EQ instead of a preamp for a solution for the Dyn B, there would be a ton more Dyn B's out there.

I don't know why I'm surprised. A search of my posts here over the last 10 years would probably have me saying about 100 times that the Dyn B is great with proper EQ'ing.

Initial tests have me blown away. Plugged the Presonus EQ into my Markbass CMD121p amp and mostly fooled with the low and mid bands. Running flat on the amp, I could get the gain to about 80% and the Master volume WAY louder than I ever have a need for, while staying clean.

Interesting....at that volume it ceases to be acoustic but is still microphonic and much better than the piezo honk of every other pickup out there (to me at least). It reminds me at very high volumes of that Bromberg close mic'd recorded tone on wood, or some of the Bad Plus early stuff with the bass way out front.

At normal volumes, very sweet and mic like. Can't wait to try this on the gig.

As I get comfortable with it, this little box should be a swiss army knife for playing on other people's amps, which is the only place I'm ever uncomfortable taking the Dyn B.

Only drawback, slight, is that it is a heavy little box. Still would easily fit in the front pocket of my bass case with a short and long mic cord to take to a jam session.

awwww man,

i just sold my DYN-B....

Now, after lots of tests and findings, I couldn´t be happier. It´s just very understandable that many players try the dyn-b for not long and sell it after frustrating first attempts. I´ll share my findings to maybe encourage people to try again, or maybe it´s of other help.

In amplifying, there´s already many variables with more conventional systems, and the dyn-b puts two very potent ones in the mix: placement and pressure. I found that the latter can be a total showstopper. The first should not be futzed with so mcuh, in my opinion. Too endless a road, and after all, many possibilities sound "good" but all different. Just pick one and stay with it, I´d say.

In my first post, I mentioned some preamp strangenesses I had trouble with. Thanks a lot to Monte, he gave some valuable insights on the reso, but my gain problem persisted. Until I checked the pickup out on a SWR acoustic combo with balanced xlr input (california blonde or something), and I wasn´t able to use the input because of a way too hot signal. That made me think and finally I tried pulling the dyn-b away from the top just a little. And that did the trick: Suddenly, the gain knob could actually be used without overdriving directly, the sound was easier to manage, and a lot more volume could be achieved. I hooked a 2x10 cabinet to my AI contra, and the volume I got out of this while staying very mic-like totally blew my mind. I rehearsed with a band I have always had sound troubles with, due to an enormously loud drummer and the related necessity to turn up way too much to sound good (with piezos or electrets). And for the first time, the bass-sound worked, being LOUD and natural.

Just for the record, I do as I shouldn´t: going from the preamp into the normal input of the AI. That gives good EQing possibilities and sounds very good. Plugging into the effects return got more doable with the better pickup pressure, but still is not what I prefer.

I´ll definately stay with the dyn-b and the pre-aII, maybe I´ll try the parametric wizardry described above one day, but for now, it´s great. Since I bought the gear used, it wasn´t all that expensive...

Best

SideCar

Report from a gig:

Got a last minute call to play a concert last night at Rust College with touring flautist Galen Abdur-Razzaq, pianist Chris Parker, and drummer Chad Anderson. Call stated twice that bass needed to be loud, electric if I needed to.

The concert was in a long narrow lecture hall with a small very live stage. Flute was mic'ed.

I ran the Dyn B through my Markbass and Presonus EQ and it was very loud, as Galen wanted. Lots of uptempo Coltrane, Kenny Barron tunes, Hubert Laws Latin tunes, etc.

The band loved the sound, and I had kids lined up after the concert wanting to talk about the bass, so I guess I was well heard.

I guarantee you that without the eq it would have been a boomy hot mess.

monte - are you using the presonus in the effects loop from the amp? the company literature sounds like it doesn't have preamping capabilities, so i assume it only works after the preamp of the markbass...

sean p said:

monte - are you using the presonus in the effects loop from the amp? the company literature sounds like it doesn't have preamping capabilities, so i assume it only works after the preamp of the markbass...

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The company lit is confusing as hell on this......for the life of me even though it talks about using balance TRS, I don't see how it is even possible. It just has balanced (XLR) in out or unbalanced (1/4") in out.

For me I go XLR DYN B -> Presonus -> XLR in of the Markbass.

Did a gig this morning in a big boomy barn like chapel for a wedding reception (MORNING WEDDING?!?). Keyboard player trashed his Peavey amp awhile back and threw in an extra few bucks for me to bring my BosePAS. I had a few minutes before the gig so I put the Presonus out front of the Bose and it cleaned up the sound immensely. It was a bit thin but very natural. Good enough where I want to experiment with it some more on the Bose, even though I rarely gig with it.

Anyone know how to use the Presonus as an insert? The Bose has that capability and it would be cool.

Monte said:

Anyone know how to use the Presonus as an insert? The Bose has that capability and it would be cool.

Click to expand...

Hi Monte

you will need a cable like this:
Invalid Link Removed

Conect the stereo plug in the Bose and then the Tip to the Presonus Output and the Ring to the Presonus Input

If it doesn´t work switch the input and output plugs

Best Regards

Canha

jmmcc said:

Hi Monte

you will need a cable like this:
Invalid Link Removed

Conect the stereo plug in the Bose and then the Tip to the Presonus Output and the Ring to the Presonus Input

If it doesn´t work switch the input and output plugs

Best Regards

Canha

Click to expand...

OK, I have one of those. I was confused by the writing on the 1/4" jacks that state unbalanced.

I'll give that a try.

Thanks!

Ok, so I know how to use a parametric EQ into a mixer or amp with an insert input.

On my markbass, rather than using Dyn B XLR --> Presonus XLR Out --> Markbass XLR input, how would I do the same thing with the TRS 1/4" plug. I'm really ignorant as to what the effects send/return does on amps.

Would there be any advantage to doing it differently than I am doing now?

Monte said:

Would there be any advantage to doing it differently than I am doing now?

Click to expand...

I guess that you will only know after trying it.
This is what appends:
Your signal enters in the amp and then goes to the Preamp stage.
After that it goes to the Power amp stage.
The effects send and return are right in the middle of this two stages.
That is why some people that use external Preamps connect them directly to the effects return - Power Amp.
There are a lot of variables in this equation like if the effects send /return are wired in parallel or series, impedance matching etc., so i guess you will have to try it and find out if you like it or not.
I really don´t like to use it in the effects Send/Return of my AI, maybe because the preamped signal is to wild to be domesticated with the presonus, i don't know...

Best regards

Canha