• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Mic’ing the LDS 15/6 bass cabinet

Which did you prefer? (check all that apply)

  • Micing the center of the subwoofer

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Micing between the two drivers

    Votes: 5 19.2%

  • Dynamic mic

    Votes: 4 15.4%

  • Condenser mic

    Votes: 3 11.5%

  • Stereo mic

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Close mic'ing

    Votes: 1 3.8%

  • Micing about a foot from the grill

    Votes: 5 19.2%

  • Micing about two feet from the grill

    Votes: 1 3.8%

  • None of the above

    Votes: 3 11.5%

  • It's futile to mic a cab

    Votes: 1 3.8%

  • Sound samples are a waste of time

    Votes: 1 3.8%

  • I'm calling Don @ LDS to order my 15/6!

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Total voters
    26
N. Kentucky Bass

N. Kentucky Bass

Supporting Member
May 10, 2006
8,098
8,348
Northern Kentucky
sites.google.com
#1
Here are the results of some cab mic’ing tests I did on an LDS 15/6 cab, which includes a 15-inch Emminence Kappalite 3015LF sub driver and a 6.5-inch 18Sound 6ND410 mid-range driver. There are lots of variables in mic’ing a cab. With this cab, the different sized drivers pose the question of mic placement: do you put it over the subwoofer, over the mid-range, or between the drivers? Should the mic be placed close against the grill or further away?

I tried a variety of approaches.
  • Centered mic on the subwoofer.
  • Centered mic between both drivers, which was six inches from the center of each cone. That spot happened to be on the wavy edge of the subwoofer driver, which is where some people like to position the mic on a single-driver cab.
  • Varied the type of microphone. I used a Sennheiser MD 421 II dynamic mic, an AKG Perception 400 large-diaphragm condenser mic, and an Audio-Technica stereo condenser mic.

The test consisted of me playing a Cmaj chordal scale with a Fender Aerodyne jazz bass strung with Status groundwounds. No wizard chops here, just a straight 30-second run from the bottom to top of the fretboard to provide an idea of tonality for each setup. The preamp was a Genz Benz ShuttleMAX12 with a QSC PLX3602 putting 725 watts into the cab. The full signal chain is noted at the bottom of this post. Amp volume was uniform for all tests, but I gradually boosted the ART tube preamp gain setting with each mic position placed further from the cab.

I learned a lot but will let you develop your own opinion as you listen to the takes. Sound files are saved in MP3 format at 320kbps so they are in near-WAV quality. If you don’t have ultra accurate monitors calibrated to an acoustically treated environment, try using headphones to help reveal differences between mics and mic placements. Please share your reactions.

Dynamic Mic Centered on Emminence Kappalite 3015LF
Dynamic 15.jpg

1 inch from grill
3 inches
6 inches
9 inches
12 inches
15 inches
18 inches
24 inches

Dynamic Mic Centered Between Emminence Kappalite 3015LF and 18Sound 6ND410 Drivers
Dynamic centered.jpg

1 inch from grill
3 inches
6 inches
9 inches
12 inches
15 inches
18 inches
24 inches

Condenser Mic Centered on Emminence Kappalite 3015LF
Condenser 15.jpg

1 inch from grill
3 inches
6 inches
9 inches
12 inches
15 inches
18 inches
24 inches

Condenser Mic Centered Between Emminence Kappalite 3015LF and 18Sound 6ND410 Drivers
Condenser centered.jpg

1 inch from grill
3 inches
6 inches
9 inches
12 inches
15 inches
18 inches
24 inches

Stereo Mic Centered on Emminence Kappalite 3015LF
Stereo 15.jpg

1 inch from grill
3 inches
6 inches
9 inches
12 inches
15 inches
18 inches
24 inches

Stereo Mic Centered Between Emminence Kappalite 3015LF and 18Sound 6ND410 Drivers
Stereo centered.jpg

1 inch from grill
3 inches
6 inches
9 inches
12 inches
15 inches
18 inches
24 inches

Signal Chain
The crossover in the cab is at 800hz; the attenuator was set to 12:00. The ShuttleMAX12 EQ settings were mostly flat. The FET preamp was boosted to 2:00 and the tube preamp was at 10:00. (Note: I replaced the stock Ruby tube with an old Telefunken tube.) The QSC volume was attenuated to 12:00 so sound was full in the room, but not loud.

Here is a photo of the equipment rack:
Rack EQ.jpg


Signal traveled from the mic via XLR cables to ART Tube MP preamps, then fed into a dbx 266XL compressor. The expander gate was set to a threshold of -40 and a ratio of 1.3:1. The compressor threshold was set to -10, ratio was a gentle 2.75:1, attack noon, release noon, output/gain at +10, and overeasy and auto were set on. Signal left the compressor and was patched through a Mackie 808S mixer and fed into a Marantz PMD661 solid state recorder and recorded in WAV format. The recorded signal averaged about -8dB. Sound files were clipped at the front and back ends with Audacity; no signal processing was applied to the WAV files. Software called Power MP3 WMA Converter converted WAV files to MP3 constant bit rate encoding, VBR quality 5, maximum VBR bitrate of 320kbps.

Studio Acoustics
Studio back.jpg


Studio front.jpg
 
#4
I'm listening on computer speakers with a powered subwoofer. Wow, every clip sounds like it's buried in mud. I set the eq on my computer flat and turned the subwoofer down, but still, not much edge or sparkle. Probably my crummy speakers ! Thanks for posting clips, you get an " A " for effort !
 
#5
Listening on a pair of Sony headphones... the Condenser in between the 2 sounded the best to my ears. Undecided on distance from the cab though.


Thank you for putting in the time on this comparison. Makes me wish I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the LS1503 and instead just saved up for the LDS without the tweet.=(
 
#7
jnewmark said:
I'm listening on computer speakers with a powered subwoofer. Wow, every clip sounds like it's buried in mud. I set the eq on my computer flat and turned the subwoofer down, but still, not much edge or sparkle. Probably my crummy speakers ! Thanks for posting clips, you get an " A " for effort !
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have to agree. It was a killer fat bottom end sound, but not much hi mid-treble content. Don't know if it was the bass or the cab but it should have brightened up when you backed up the mic (and it sounds like it did a little but not much) so I'm assuming it's the bass.
 
#9
LOL! Well it did remind me of a clean version of a Motown sound and I really dug it since I like sounds like that sometimes, but if that's your sound, not sure what advantage there is to having the mid cone in the first place. Not like dispersion is a big issue with that sound, you know ;)
 
#11
rpsands said:
Don't bother mic'ing - you'll get a tone that will be the same or possibly better by just sending direct. I've fooled around with it a bit but it's just pointless with this full range of a cabinet.
Click to expand...


Er, I think the idea was to give people an idea of how these cabs sound rather than as a studio technique. ;)
 
#13
JimmyM said:
Not like dispersion is a big issue with that sound, you know ;)
Click to expand...

Dispersion is of limited utility when close-micing to make clips or to provide for FOH, period. Really doesn't matter what tone one is attempting to represent.

As far as what a cab - any cab - really sounds like, I know I never get down on my knees and elbows and put my ear up near the baffle. I'm usually standing up somewhere near the cab, or further out. Other listeners are not anywhere near the enclosures either, and not down on their hands and knees either - though some may eventually end up that way because of intoxicants ; }
 
#14
BurningSkies said:
Er, I think the idea was to give people an idea of how these cabs sound rather than as a studio technique. ;)
Click to expand...

Well, that's a terrible idea, because if this isn't about live mic'ing technique, you need to record off-axis from a significant distance (outside the "near field" or whatever), to give people a real idea of what the cabs sound like live.
 
#15
Well come on, RP. This is a little listening test on Talkbass, not a scientific thing. 1 or 2 ft out should be plenty good enough to get an idea of what it sounds like for our purposes.
 
#16
Hey Dave, thanks for sharing the clips, that took some time & effort. And would you mind shipping up some of that California sunshine up here, please?

Of what's been posted so far, I prefer the condensor mic centered over the 15, about a foot out. Was it set for cardioid? If it's got switchable patterns, another neat trick is to put it in omni and then you place it closer to the source without the bass build-up. The stereo mic was disappointing, there was a distracting buzz. Have you tried mic'ing the 6? I'd assume it would sound pretty thin on it's own.

I don't get why peeps here don't seemed too jazzed about mic'ing, it opens up a whole world of tones beyond what you might get with a direct signal. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.
 
#17
As a long time bass player, former engineer at a pro 24 track studio, engineer at a twin 24 track remote truck, and have mixed FoH for regional touring bands and clubs; here is what I like for mic'ing an electric bass.

For rock - close mic; usual veryclose or about 1' out, MD421 or RE20 dynamic
For jazz - a little more air (maybe as much as 3' depending on amp, player, volume, etc) and a large diaphram condenser like a U-87

Also, playing scales is difficult to evaluate, I would a groove with dynamics but really need to hear how it sits in the track; might try further testing while playing along with a drum machine on 1 track, DI bass on the 2nd, and mic'd on the third
.02
 
#18
Close on this cab is tough though...with that 6 carrying so much content, you can' just close-mic the 15 like you would do with any other 115, 4x10 or similar cab. Really, to get an accurate representation of what the cab sounds like you need to be about 8+ feet out from it, then you're getting way more room than anyone wants to hear.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back