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Hey, listen up, cab manufacturers! Rant coming!

JimmyM

JimmyM

Apr 11, 2005
127,256
125,178
Plymouth NC
Disclosures
Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
#1
it's time to do away with the practice of rating your cabs' power handling by raw driver voice coil burnout specs. yeah, i know, big numbers sell, but it's dishonest and sets up false expectations, which in turn causes the customer to either become disgruntled with your cabs, or it causes them to blow or damage the drivers because they believed you.

the internet has made this small world even smaller, and there are enough knowledgeable people out there wising us all up to the real truth about cabs. the real world usable power handling of cabs is very often way lower than the quoted power handling specs, usually at least half of what's been quoted. when the cab starts to sputter and make what are known as "fart" sounds, that means the speakers have reached the maximum displacement (xmax), you're not going to be able to get any more volume out of them no matter how much wattage you put in them, and you're going to damage them if you go any further. all too often, though, cab manufacturers use voice coil burnout specs from the raw driver manufacturer to quote power handling, which is much higher than max displacement. if you're going to quote power handling specs, maximum displacement without farting out should be the standard, not voice coil burnout. (thanks to bill fitzmaurice for the info)

i'm not going to name names of who quotes bogus power handling specs, but as far as i can see it's pretty widespread. not everyone does it, but a lot do. and the more i think about it and see how many people blow their cabs because they believe the manufacturers, the madder it makes me. time to end it, folks. i'm calling on those manufacturers who use voice coil burnout as the standard to stop lying to us. in the long run your customers will be more happy and they will be more satisfied with your gear.

ampeg, audiokinesis, and barefaced are brands i can think of off the top of my head who quote legit real world power handling specs. when these companies tell you what their cabs take, it's based on legit max displacement and not voice coil burnout. if you happen to know of any other manufacturers who quote real world power handling specs for their cabs, please list them so they can be acknowledged for their honesty. i can't stop you all from naming the offenders, but i'd rather not make this thread about pointing fingers, plus if someone gets named as an offender that actually does publish legit power handling specs, that's not fair. so let's just name the ones who do it right and let them serve as an example that you can sell gear by being honest and not using unrealistic numbers.

thanks for reading. i haven't ranted in a while...i forgot how much i like it!
 
#4
Actually, I believe the power handling specs of cabs are quite accurate, and come directly from the OEM manufacturers of the drivers used in the cab (i.e., you can pretty much match up the power handling spec to any cab with the driver they use on the speaker manufacturer's website.

I agree, the number is relatively useless the way many interpret it... i.e., they interpret the power rating as how much power the cabinet needs, or that somehow that power rating is representative of how loud the cabinet will get. That, of course, is not true.

I've found that much of the technical information spewed by some of the so called audio engineers on this site is JUST as misleading and self-serving as the info spewed by most cab companies.

I have NEVER had a high quality cab like Epifani, Bergantino, TC, TecAmp, etc., etc. not live up to its rated power nor fart out at even higher power deliver levels. This is because MANY companies use drivers that not only have decent power ratings, but also very good additional specs that most buyers would find useless and confusing.

Sometimes, we need to use our ears:smug:
 
#5
btw, i totally welcome comments from any cab manufacturers who would like to defend the usage of voice coil burnout specs, or if they would like to add themselves to the list of those who do things right.
 
#8
KJung said:
Actually, I believe the power handling specs of cabs are quite accurate, and come directly from the OEM manufacturers of the drivers used in the cab (i.e., you can pretty much match up the power handling spec to any cab with the driver they use on the speaker manufacturer's website.

I agree, the number is relatively useless the way many interpret it... i.e., they interpret the power rating as how much power the cabinet needs, or that somehow that power rating is representative of how loud the cabinet will get. That, of course, is not true.

I've found that much of the technical information spewed by some of the so called audio engineers on this site is JUST as misleading and self-serving as the info spewed by most cab companies.

I have NEVER had a high quality cab like Epifani, Bergantino, TC, TecAmp, etc., etc. not live up to its rated power nor fart out at even higher power deliver levels. This is because MANY companies use drivers that not only have decent power ratings, but also very good additional specs that most buyers would find useless and confusing.

Sometimes, we need to use our ears:smug:
Click to expand...
well my ears would tell me you'd be wrong about that, ken ;) not about those manufacturers, as i really don't know much about them. but again, ken, i can't tell you how many times i've played a cab rated at a certain wattage, and i'm using a head with well below that much wattage, and the cab farts out well before the head reaches its max clean wattage. if what you're saying was true, that would never happen. sorry, but it's happened way more than i care to think about.
 
#12
JimmyM said:
well my ears would tell me you'd be wrong about that, ken ;) not about those manufacturers, as i really don't know much about them
Click to expand...

This is the main issue IMO... believing some of the crap written by some of the self-styled Audio Engineers 'blindly', while having very limited experience with the many amazing production cabs out there.

Don't mean to dog you Jimmy, but some of these guys have done much more harm than good on this site. Remember... they are trying to sell their own cabs and/or designs:smug:

You are correct, though, that there are many cabs at the low end that really are quite bad. Duh! However, there are MANY cabs in the mid and high level of the market that totally kill in every way, and that perform completely up to the standard of even the relatively hyped marketing specs. There are obviously exceptions (e.g., many use the -10db roll-off point and 'suggest' that it is a -3db roll-off point). However, even many of those cabs sound killing for many tone goals and contexts.
 
#13
JimmyM said:
it's time to do away with the practice of rating your cabs' power handling by raw driver voice coil burnout specs. yeah, i know, big numbers sell, but it's dishonest and sets up false expectations, which in turn causes the customer to either become disgruntled with your cabs, or it causes them to blow or damage the drivers because they believed you.

the internet has made this small world even smaller, and there are enough knowledgeable people out there wising us all up to the real truth about cabs. the real world usable power handling of cabs is very often way lower than the quoted power handling specs, usually at least half of what's been quoted. when the cab starts to sputter and make what are known as "fart" sounds, that means the speakers have reached the maximum displacement (xmax), you're not going to be able to get any more volume out of them no matter how much wattage you put in them, and you're going to damage them if you go any further. all too often, though, cab manufacturers use voice coil burnout specs from the raw driver manufacturer to quote power handling, which is much higher than max displacement. if you're going to quote power handling specs, maximum displacement without farting out should be the standard, not voice coil burnout. (thanks to bill fitzmaurice for the info)

i'm not going to name names of who quotes bogus power handling specs, but as far as i can see it's pretty widespread. not everyone does it, but a lot do. and the more i think about it and see how many people blow their cabs because they believe the manufacturers, the madder it makes me. time to end it, folks. i'm calling on those manufacturers who use voice coil burnout as the standard to stop lying to us. in the long run your customers will be more happy and they will be more satisfied with your gear.

ampeg, audiokinesis, and barefaced are brands i can think of off the top of my head who quote legit real world power handling specs. when these companies tell you what their cabs take, it's based on legit max displacement and not voice coil burnout. if you happen to know of any other manufacturers who quote real world power handling specs for their cabs, please list them so they can be acknowledged for their honesty. i can't stop you all from naming the offenders, but i'd rather not make this thread about pointing fingers, plus if someone gets named as an offender that actually does publish legit power handling specs, that's not fair. so let's just name the ones who do it right and let them serve as an example that you can sell gear by being honest and not using unrealistic numbers.

thanks for reading. i haven't ranted in a while...i forgot how much i like it!
Click to expand...
U really are a true gentleman. Thanks for setting forth this information. I know it makes me feel better about something I bought knowing what I can and cannot do w it even-though the manufacturer presses the issue up front to dispel and real world info.
 
#14
KJung said:
This is the main issue IMO... believing some of the crap written by some of the self-styled Audio Engineers 'blindly', while having very limited experience with the many amazing production cabs out there.

Don't mean to dog you Jimmy, but some of these guys have done much more harm than good on this site. Remember... they are trying to sell their own cabs and/or designs:smug:

You are correct, though, that there are many cabs at the low end that really are quite bad. Duh! However, there are MANY cabs in the mid and high level of the market that totally kill in every way, and that perform completely up to the standard of even the relatively hyped marketing specs. There are obviously exceptions (e.g., many use the -10db roll-off point and 'suggest' that it is a -3db roll-off point). However, even many of those cabs sound killing for many tone goals and contexts.
Click to expand...

Good day to you sir and as always u are a treasure trove of info as well thanks guys for telling the truth and helping out your brothers.
 
#15
KJung said:
This is the main issue IMO... believing some of the crap written by some of the self-styled Audio Engineers 'blindly', while having very limited experience with the many amazing production cabs out there.

Don't mean to dog you Jimmy, but some of these guys have done much more harm than good on this site. Remember... they are trying to sell their own cabs and/or designs:smug:
Click to expand...
ken, ken, ken...oscar, oscar, oscar (those under 40 won't get that but trust me, it's funny)...after all this time, do you really doubt my ability to think for myself? do you think i don't go out and test this stuff for myself when possible? no, i don't try out every single piece of gear that's out there like you do, but i try out a lot. and i get a lot of rental amps of different types to try out as well. i've used most of the biggest names out there at one point or another. and i have personally played a lot of amps with heads rated well below what the cab is supposed to take and not be able to put anywhere near full clean volume through it. and it ain't just the cheap stuff. if those manufacturers are more honest, good for them...they should be noted for it. but let's get real...it happens a lot.
 
#16
dont just jump on the bandwagon that cabs are under rated and thats why they "fart out". they can also fart due to not enough power in your amp... If not enough the amp can not control the speaker correctly. Rule of thumb....twice the power than what the speakers rated. Usually if you run the speaker too hard you'll bounce the coil off of the magnet...a sound you'll never forget.
 
#17
I think most end users want a cab power rating to mean as close as possible to this: our cab can effectively and safely use this many watts, assuming no extreme eq manipulations. In my modest experience this is seldom the case. Most cabs I have had are smallish and compress and/or distort before getting near their rated max power. Examples:my previous EA Wizzy 12 was fairly rated at 200 watts , but my Scout 12s sound like crap long before they swallow their 300 watt rated max. ie, in the real world, if I tried to give them everything a 300 watt amp had on tap they'd buckle sonically, even if they wouldn't suffer irreversible damage, ditto for Epi UL2-112s. That's been my experience.
 
#18
As Jimmy M is ranting, I will add my own rant. This one is against the heavy use of viral marketing by bass equipment manufacturers. I won't give any names but think of manufacturers who received a lot of visibility in this forum for only small or very recent achievements.

I am including Wikkipedia definition of viral marketing for more clarity:

Viral marketing and viral advertising are buzzwords referring to marketing techniques that use pre-existing social networks to produce increases in brand awareness or to achieve other marketing objectives (such as product sales) through self-replicating viral processes, analogous to the spread of virus or computer viruses. It can be word-of-mouth delivered or enhanced by the network effects of the Internet. Viral promotions may take the form of video clips, interactive Flash games, advergames, ebooks, brandable software, images, or even text messages.

The goal of marketers interested in creating successful viral marketing programs is to identify individuals with high Social Networking Potential (SNP) and create viral messages that appeal to this segment of the population and have a high probability of being taken by another competitor.

The term "viral marketing" has also been used pejoratively to refer to stealth marketing campaigns—the unscrupulous use of astroturfing on-line combined with undermarket advertising in shopping centers to create the impression of spontaneous word of mouth enthusiasm.
 
#19
As always, Jimmy is dead-on with his post.

This is part of the reason why I built my own cab with a power amp and speakers to power my VT Deluxe. Because I matched the components and built it, I know it will deliver WAY more clean volume than I'll ever use in the in which rooms I gig, with no farting out, ever.

Feeding a family of five on my day job income doesn't allow me the luxury of going out and buying high-end gear. Thankfully, my dad was an awesome general contractor when I was a kid and he passed on just enough of his skills to me to allow me to build some stuff. He's saved me $$$$$$$$ over the years by teaching me how to do that kind of stuff.
 
#20
KJung said:
This is the main issue IMO... believing some of the crap written by some of the self-styled Audio Engineers 'blindly', while having very limited experience with the many amazing production cabs out there.
Click to expand...
And then there's the professional engineers, like myself, who not only have experience with the 'amazing production cabs' out there, in many cases they designed them. :D
I wish all the commercial cabs I've designed were truthfully advertised with complete and accurate specs, but that's not my decision. IMO that will only happen when manufacturers come to believe that it's in their interest to do so.

Jimmy, 90% of the drivers out there are Eminence, and anyone who wants to know the real world capabilities of his cab can look at the Eminence cab designs for those drivers, like those for the ubiquitous Deltalite II 2510:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

There's very little information about the real world capabilities of speakers that can't be discovered with sufficient research.
 

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