1-2-4?

[Happynoj]

Well in that case your hands must either be bigger or much stretchier than mine...

 

[aikakone]

I can't hold it a long time, but I can do a 5-fret span in 1st position. When I use it while I play, I will often pivot just a tad with my thumb to keep it from being stressed, but my hand can make the reach no problem.

I have to agree with Jimmy on this. Just got my instrument out to test, but sure, I can span 5 half steps in 1st position. Maybe I wouldn't be able to hold the stretch a long time, but I could still do it. My teacher advocates the 1 finger/1 fret style, and it made sense to me (even though my first experience was with double bass for a short while some 15 years ago).

I know... not everything works for everybody, and some things just don't fit others' physiology.. But as far as this technique seems logical and easy. Yes, we've worked on my finger strength and stretching, but that would be of good value no matter how I placed my fingers.

 

[Pilgrim]

Jimmy's hands must simply be a bit larger than mine. I can span 1-4 and that's it. I read on Carol Kaye's website that she strongly advocates the "thumb pivot" wherein the thumb stays in place under the neck and the wrist turns to allow the hand to pivot clockwise - letting the player reach another fret higher. (That may be a lousy description but I think it gets the point across.)

This is a copy-and-paste from her playing tip #75 (paragraph breaks added):

Also, be sure to use that left thumb as a PIVOT also, it will help you keep your place without looking at the neck so much, and is an absolutely wonderful safe left-hand technique, the only way to play. Remember, as you slide up the neck, the thumb (which normally sits slightly behind the 1st finger, starts sliding back towards the nut to position the hand in an easy nice strong way. By the time you get up to the 10th fret, your left thumb maybe resting on the 8th fret (or even slightly lower than that) while you're playing with your first finger on the 10th fret.

Sounds like you all should check into the left-thumb pivoting a little more. Just relax your left wrist, letting it hang down in a relaxed manner, and the only part of you that should move, is the very frong part of the hand. The fingers should move around as a group while the thumb pivots in one spot.

Be sure AFTER you've played a note with the 1st finger to LIFT OFF the 1st finger and take it witn you with the rest of the fingers. Never leave it laying down on the fingerboard at all -- this is very common with upright bass players -- they tend to lay that 1st finger on the neck and that is a terribly bad habit, serves NO PURPOSE whatsoever and will not only slow you down, but you cannot effectively use your greatest left hand technique with that bad habit: the thumb pivot. You may want to check that, to make sure you're not doing that.

You'll find your way around the neck very well with the thumb pivot which encourages the hand/fingers to move as group while you keep your place with the thumb staying in one spot -- you then have a range of say 5-8 frets while staying in the same spot. You will never have any physical problems with arm, hand, wrist, fingers if you use this wonderful safe and experienced left-hand/fingers technique.

Link: http://www.carolkaye.com/www/education/tips51.htm

 

[JimmyM]

You guys did see where I said I have the smallest hands of any male I've ever met, right?

 

[Happynoj]

You guys did see where I said I have the smallest hands of any male I've ever met, right?

You've never met me...

 

[HaVIC5]

I started on upright bass in the 60's, and at that time we definitely learned to use all 4 fingers. I still use all 4 when needed, although I admit that I get lazy and use 1-2-4 much of the time. 1-2-3-4 never hurt me on the upright, so it darn sure won't hurt me on the electric bass. After playing upright, it's possible to span all four of the bottom frets with one hand, and that provides one finger per fret.

Perhaps the upright teaching technique has changed and 1-2-4 is common now. I grant that pressing the string with the 3rd finger on an upright requires a fair amount of hand strength.

The average hand cannot stretch enough to span from frets 1 to 5, but it can span frets 2 to 5 - just move up one fret.

Well, the traditional method is Simandl, 1-2-4. This has been the case for a century and a half. Other schools of thought exist (Billie, Rabbath), but on upright Simandl is default. You must have learned from people hip to other ideas.

 

[warnergt]

I fully agree with Jimmy.

When I started playing bass, I was skeptical that I could make OFPF
work for me up near the top position but I stuck with it since my
teacher recommended it and a lot of TB'ers did, too (this subject comes
up often enough). Now, I find myself even stretching for that fifth fret.
It can take a little pivot -- especially at first -- but it helps reduce the
shifting which can help efficiency in playing.

Do what works for you. And don't discard the OFPF approach until you've
at least given it a decent effort. If you get it working, you may be glad
you did. I am.

Carol Kaye puts her thumb behind her 1st finger?
That seems a bit odd to me. I thought most players put it behind
the 2nd finger.

 

[JimmyM]

It's all leverage, BTW. Keep your thumb down on the neck as far as you need to go to get the reach. Raise your bass an inch or two and see if that helps.

 

[akunohana]

Just wondering if there's any videos regarding this that i can watch?

Thanks very much!

 

[HaVIC5]

I fully agree with Jimmy.

When I started playing bass, I was skeptical that I could make OFPF
work for me up near the top position but I stuck with it since my
teacher recommended it and a lot of TB'ers did, too (this subject comes
up often enough). Now, I find myself even stretching for that fifth fret.
It can take a little pivot -- especially at first -- but it helps reduce the
shifting which can help efficiency in playing.

Do what works for you. And don't discard the OFPF approach until you've
at least given it a decent effort. If you get it working, you may be glad
you did. I am.

Carol Kaye puts her thumb behind her 1st finger?
That seems a bit odd to me. I thought most players put it behind
the 2nd finger.

Relax your left hand completely. Turn it over. Where is your thumb? It should be (on most people anyway) to the left of the first finger. A lot of "proper technique" books tell you to put it with your second finger, but there really isn't any need to. Its much more natural just to let it sit with the 1st finger (or even a little bit to the left of it). The use of the thumb is auxiliary anyway on a fretted instrument.

 

[Charling]

Generally 1 2 4 means you use the pinky instead of the ring finger. Some people use the two fingers (3 and 4) together for more strength. My personal feeling is that it's not that important on electric bass where the notes are closer together (the primary reason 1 2 4 is taught for double bass is that the longer scale length puts the notes far enough apart that it can hurt your hand to play say Bb on the A string with your first finger, and then G# on the E string with your pinky all by itself.

jte

true, though the original theory behind the three finger method taught in classical double bass was not to protect your little finger, but to protect your ring finger. The pinky is small but strong and has a huge slab of muscle underneath it to support any load you put on it. the ring finger is out on its own and can very easily be damaged with playing double bass hence it was phased out of common technique!

if you let the fingers on your hand curl a little then pull on each one away from your arm in a 'locking pinky's' fasion you will see that the index and pinky are instantly supported by the muscles down the edge of your hand, the middle finger is large and is also supported by a large muscle on the top of your hand (if you have been playing a lot or a very long time this muscle is easily noticeable when clenching a fist!). the ring finger in comparison has very little muscle supporting it, there is a muscle on the top of the hand but it's nomally smaller than the one supporting the index/middle and there isn't a lot of suport offered by the upper plam muscles. this combined with its position seeming ripe for tendon injury means it is often ignored in classical techniques.

regarding finger size, my hands are tiny, really tiny, I can't think of many people I have met with smaller hands that me including a lot of girls! I can happily stretch from 1 to 5, its about technique and hand conditioning. get a good teacher to show you how to work on those muscles that allow you to stretch!

edit - just read a similar thread on the db side and paul warburton posted this -

A little experiment.
Try this. (or not).
Make a fist with your left hand. Put the fisted hand on the table so that the first and second knuckles are flat on the table. Pull each finger out of the "fist" (leaving the ring finger for last, please) and wiggle it around...up, down and sideways while maintaining the "fist" on the table. No problem. (including the thumb). Now, all together boys, try it with the ring finger. Hmmmm......come to yer own conclusions.

followed by this -

It's weaker for a couple different reasons. The ligaments are different in that finger. Because of that, it becomes even weaker since you don't use it enough. This is one of the main reasons they came up with the three finger left hand technique in the first place..."the fourth finger supported by the third". The bass is a big instrument...really not comparable to the rest of the fiddle family or guitar family.

But hey, lookit The Rabbath players. Some of them play with everything but their ****'s. You CAN do what you WANT to do by just DOING it.
Anyway, that kind of answers the OP's question of "So what's wrong with the third finger?" No?....

then bobkonowsbass posted this -

coming from a piano background the ring finger has very specific physical shortcomings that need to be addressed through exercises such as the Hanon aerobics, e.t.c. For some reason humans evolved with tendons binding the ring finger to the pinky and middle fingers. So where the index, middle finger and pinky have independent mobility, the ring finger is a mooch that borrows power from the fingers adjacent to it. The early guys were probably aware of this so they made the standard method for DB 124. This was to prevent injury by not trying to make the hand do what it wasn't made to do naturally. (People back then were a lot smaller too!) But as everyone has been saying, do whatever makes you sound good!

_______________

I think this is less of a dnager with electric bass, btu it's relative youth as an instrumen has meant that a lot of the techniques we use are still heavily borrowed from DB. that said I play finger per fret all the time but for heavier groove stuff and anything where i use my main bass (action as high as a kite ) I find myself settling on 3 fingers most of the time.