12/8 timing

[Pacman]

Originally posted by stephanie

I was looking at the "Note Reading Studies For Bass" book and page 42 has two exercises: the first one time signature is 4/4, "quarter note=76", the second is in 12/8, "dotted quarter note=76". And it says "When a piece has a four-beat pulse based on an eight-note triplet rhythm, it is often written as 12/8..." And it says that both exercises should sound exactly the same.



What I also understand, as with any time signature, is the top number is how many beats in the bar and the bottom number is what note gets the beat. So in this case, going along with what Ed said, there are 12 beats in the bar and the eighth note gets the beat. But on that page in the Note Reading book that doesn't sound like the case. If I played 12 beats per bar it wouldn't sound like the exercise above it (???).

Well, this goes backto what I was saying, that each beat is a dotted quarter note, but you can't write 4/4.5 as a time signature. The dotted quarter note is the unit of beat, not the eighth note. Since there are three eighth notes to a dotted quarter note, it gives you the triplet feel.

 

[Craig Garfinkel]

stephanie,

Now I know what you're dealing with. The two exercices will sound exactly the same. The illustration is to show how a piece of music can be notated in two (or more) different ways and still sound the same.

But here's the pertinent "rule" in music notation that should be followed: always notate in the least confusing way possible.

For example (now let's really confuse you ), you could "theoretically" (this time pun intended) notate any piece in 4/4 time in 8/8 time. That's eight beats to the bar with the eighth note getting the beat. Now, let's notate a C major scale so that it sounds like eight quarter notes, one note of the scale per quarter note. To notate this in 8/8 time you'd have to write it as two tied eighth notes of C, then two tied eighth notes of D, two tied eighth notes of E, two tied eighth notes of F...next measure...two tied eighth notes of G, two tied eighth notes of A, two tied eighth notes of B and finally two tied eighth notes of C.

Phew...man I wish I could add graphics here .

Anyway...you could notate in this way and it would sound correct. But would you or should you? Of course not.

 

[stephanie]

Originally posted by ANDREW JONES
Tell us more about the double bass part and mabye we can guide you better.

The reading book is trying to show the common use for 12/8 time sig. Is the thing in 4/4 all triplets? It probally is and will sound the same a what 12/8 is ussually assosiated with.

Well, with the piece I'm working on I can basically play the whole thing except for those two measures I mentioned. I just can't get the feel for them, yet I can get the feel for the rest of the piece. The majority of the piece is what appears to be 4 groups of triplets to a measure. Some measures, tho, go "dotted quarter note - quarter note - eighth note - dotted quarter note - dotted quarter note" and I seem to be able to get the feel for that, but not the "quarter note - quarter note - eight note - eighth note - dotted quarter note - quarter note - eighth note rest". I feel rather silly for getting myself all confused and frustrated over 2 measures LOL and I aplogize for all my confusion.

And, yeah, in the book, the 4/4 exercise is basically all triplets.

--

Craig, your last post didn't confuse me. I get what you're saying.

 

[stephanie]

Update: I think I've figured it out! I worked hard on the piece last night and somehow got through those measures with a bit of ease, getting the feel for them. Thank you everyone for your help.

By the way, I wonder if there are any good books that go into deep explanation of (odd) time signatures?

 

[cassanova]

Bumped for your learning pleasure

 

[leanne]

Ed's explination is definitive. But you wouldn't be "wrong" setting your metronome to hit on the four emphasized beats in 12/8...in fact that's how you should do it if the tempo is anything above a crawl. Another way to illustrate it is like this:

one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve

I want to add something here... I only know how to play one tune in 12/8, and it's a bluesy tune. So, from that perspective: what he said, that's all I need to worry about.

I just feel it that way, that's how the tune is. No matter how it's written -- you could write it in 4/4 if you wanted to, but that might not suggest the right feel.. Just read it and feel it and sometimes just don't think so much about it and play. It will just come to you!