12 inch speakers, shed some light??

[CL400Peavey]

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/does-speaker-size-effect-tone-just-volume-538102/

And the take away message from that thread:

Does speaker size effect tone or just volume?

Neither. The only factor influenced by size alone is dispersion versus frequency.

 

[David Jayne]

Yeah he make nice bass amps. Anyway, bass driver size plays a very big part when it comes to volume.

Don't forget excursion and ultimate power handling. There are 10's (even 8's!) out there that will easily out-perform some 15's.

 

[Joe Louvar]

Don't forget excursion and ultimate power handling. There are 10's (even 8's!) out there that will easily out-perform some 15's.

EDIT:

Well kind of. Displacement does when you are talking about low end. You can have a 15 inch driver that is really loud at 800hz, but sucks sub 100hz. You can have a 10" driver that has more displacement and will have better low end, and be louder sub 100hz.

And again, coming back to reality - if bass driver size never mattered, bass subs at large concerts would be the size of a dime.

Also FWIW: Larger bass drivers cool better too.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Yeah he makes nice bass amps. Anyway, bass driver size plays a very big part when it comes to volume.

Well kind of. Displacement does when you are talking about low end. You can have a 15 inch driver that is really loud at 800hz, but sucks sub 100hz. You can have a 10" driver that has more displacement and will have better low end, and be louder sub 100hz.

 

[CL400Peavey]

And again, coming back to reality - if bass driver size never mattered, bass subs at large concerts would be the size of a dime.

And we have covered this. Its not about size, its about economics at that point.

 

[RockNRollAl]

They are roughly 12" in diameter and will make some amount of sound.

Not only that, they're a foot across and a third of a yard wide.

 

[will33]

Not only that, they're a foot across and a third of a yard wide.

 

[seamonkey]

EDIT:

And again, coming back to reality - if bass driver size never mattered, bass subs at large concerts would be the size of a dime.

Also FWIW: Larger bass drivers cool better too.

Big sousaphone can do it. Put your lips in the mouth piece, ok maybe bigger than a dime. It will fill a large concert hall. Just blow loud enough.

 

[Revolver]

And the take away message from that thread:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleabee View Post
Does speaker size effect tone or just volume?

Neither. The only factor influenced by size alone is dispersion versus frequency.

I guess Duke LeJeune's (Audiokinesis) opinion has no credible weight on the issue discussed, huh?

 

[Bassmec]

Speaker size has nothing to do with frequency response
This is my latest upper mid driver design, you might need to select the bright input on your amp to get best response from this singing almost shrill loudspeaker design. NOT

 

[Mike M.]

The only think the size of a speaker tells you, is the size of the speaker. It has no bearing to the sound it will reproduce.

Well.....then why are differant sized speakers (10's,12's,15's, 18's) made available for bass? Not trying to be difficult, just asking an honest question. I even remember an article years ago with Chris Squire talking about his very early setups which involved 15's and he said he could "never get use to the 15" sound."

From my own personal experience....many years ago I played thru an SVT head and I really wrestled with 2,15's in one cabinet. I fought with those 15's left and right to get the sound I heard in my head. One day I plugged it into 2,12's in a single cabinet and WOW! There was the sound I heard. Used that SVT with 2, 12" Gauss speakers for three years and loved every minute of it.

 

[David Jayne]

Well.....then why are differant sized speakers (10's,12's,15's, 18's) made available for bass?

Add equal parts economy (one large speaker is cheaper that several small ones), power handling (several small speakers usually handle more than one large one), and marketing.

You have to understand that these different cabs you used were different in many ways besides the speaker diameter.

 

[RickenBoogie]

+1 the thing no one ever thinks about is the sum of all the parts, ie, the spkr, (with it's various components), the box itself, and it's internal volume, bracing, port tubes, (if any), and how all of that is engineered together, as a whole unit we call a bass cab. The diameter of the particular driver is only relevant as far as how many are needed for a certain goal. Obviously, fewer large spkrs are required vs many more smaller ones. (8x10 vs. 2x15, etc.) Yes, you could design a sub with 6" spkrs, but you'd need to use 8 or so of them vs a single 18" spkr to do the same job.

 

[1n3]

Also FWIW: Larger bass drivers cool better too.

So - if a 10" and 15" speaker have identical voice coils and magnet structure, the larger speaker will cool better? Why would that be so?

And the take away message from that thread:

Neither. The only factor influenced by size alone is dispersion versus frequency.

I guess Duke LeJeune's (Audiokinesis) opinion has no credible weight on the issue discussed, huh?

Huh? Did Duke contradict Bill Fitzmaurice?

 

[David Jayne]

So - if a 10" and 15" speaker have identical voice coils and magnet structure, the larger speaker will cool better? Why would that be so?




Huh? Did Duke contradict Bill Fitzmaurice?

Not that I can see.

 

[Munjibunga]

Bergantino CN212. [/thread]

 

[HolmeBass]

Genz Benz UB 212T, very loud and deep cabinet.

But the truth is there is no "sound of 12s" or "sound of 10s" or some such, the speakers of a given diameter can have drastically different performance, and it's the entire electro-mechanical system of speakers (drivers) plus cabinet (enclosure) that determines the sonic characteristics.

There is an "iron triangle" relationship that speaker cabinet designers work within: a cabinet cannot be small, loud, and deep. You can't have all three. It's always a design decision trade-off about where the cabinet ends up. The GB UB 212T is not small, but with neo drivers it's not terribly heavy (63 lbs) and it is pretty loud and pretty deep.

As driver technology gets better, the triangle in effect gets bigger, as it were. But it never goes away.

 

[David Jayne]

Genz Benz UB 212T, very loud and deep cabinet.

But the truth is there is "sound of 12s"

Did you mean "there is NO 'sound of 12's....."etc?

 

[Joe Louvar]

So - if a 10" and 15" speaker have identical voice coils and magnet structure, the larger speaker will cool better? Why would that be so?

LOL, don’t be silly, of course not.

Also FWIW: Heat can affect a driver’s performance, which in return can change the sound. For example - overheating can cause failure and farting speakers don’t sound good. So stating that a bass drivers size could never affect the tone or volume, just isn’t completely true.

Cheers, and have a good weekend.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Diameter affects off axis sound on single speakers. Once you have multiples, that gets thrown out the window.