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12" Speakers for Sealed Cabs Showdown - Emi vs Fane

#22
OK, just thought through this more... (all true AFAIK for DC, assuming close enough for AC)

1. Voltage drop across each branch has to be the same.
2. Power drop is current times voltage.
3. The lower resistance branch is going to draw more current.

Sooo, yeah, more power to the one in parallel with the two in series. Damn.

Sorry for the derailment. Back to sealed 12'ers.
 
#23
have you considered the Kappalite 3012LFs? Looks like those will go into small (ca. 1 cu ft) sealed cabs with that relatively high SVT Q you're looking for. That's just looking at the Eminence cab suggestions.

So two of those in parallel (4 ohms) crossed over with a 12" guitar driver (8 ohms) -again in a separate sealed section- for mids/highs. That would give you a 3-12 configuration. Just a thought.
 
#24
Yeah, 109 EBP could work. I *think* that puts it at ~90Hz f3, so a little high, IMO. For my use, I'd prefer to have a full ranger, so if I apply the same filter I've be using, I wouldn't consider it due to the 2kHz upper range.

I should probably reiterate that I've written off a lot of speakers that just don't get to 4kHz, like the 3012LF. If you're doing the guitar driver or mid thing, there may be a few other options. I doubt I'll get bored enough to go through that whole filtering process a second time, though. :p Likewise, some that modeled nicely in decent sized boxes but had much lower or higher f3 points.
 
#25
Modeled the 3012LF, and yeah, f3 in the 80's Hz. Another one where in a sealed box, thermal controls. You get the full 450W down to ~20Hz. The max SPL is similar to the 500LF (~121dB peak), but smoother because there's no mechanical limit. Below 80Hz the roll off is 3dB above the 500LF, so it's like having a second 500LF when you're at the limits. A pair at full power would whomp, as fearful guys know. ;)

I think I've hit the end of the road here. I found that the Celestion BL12-200X and BL12-300X model similarly, but a bit tighter. And I can't find anyone selling them. Weber lists a 12" on the site, but it's out of order and they're too cool for measurements anyway. It sells (sold) for $117, good for 175W and is (was) available in 4, 8, or 16 ohm. Peavy doesn't even make a 12" as far as I saw :eek: I looked through a couple more manufactures sites -- nothing good.

So, naturally, I started looking at Fane's non-12"ers for sealed use... a couple 15's and an 8" look nice, but I'll save that for another time. :smug:
 
#27
Thanks Jmac. I hope someone finds it useful :p I don't have the scratch at the moment to physically experiment with these. (Though I'm considering sending a few things out the door to make room... :rollno:)


I'm also curious about aluminum dust caps and how much extra extension they can give.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/ampeg-v4-cab-bass-529540/index2.html

http://www.300guitars.com/articles/dust-caps-the-deal-on-dust-caps-by-anthony-lucas/

It could bring some drivers that are spec'd around 3kHz into the fold? Or take a one that goes to 4kHz up to 5kHz? I'm making these numbers up -- I have no idea what the difference is. NTM, they add to the vintage vibe.

Anybody have an idea?


And another idea:
On second thought, the 16 ohm Delta 12B's COULD do well in a 4x12, I think. The TF graph may be tighter, but there's A LOT of power capacity, 500 cc Vd and with 4 of any driver the ability to boost the bass knob is greatly increased. @ 11lbs each, it's not gonna be light, it could be maybe 2/3rds the weight of an NV412.
 
#29
Here's an off-the-wall option: Celestion G12T-100 - I have A/Bed a pair of them with a pair of S2012 and, in my opinion, they hold their own for bass in a sealed box. I'll leave you to run the numbers, etc. but I've been getting happy results. YMMV
 
#30
rumbl said:
Here's an off-the-wall option: Celestion G12T-100 - I have A/Bed a pair of them with a pair of S2012 and, in my opinion, they hold their own for bass in a sealed box. I'll leave you to run the numbers, etc. but I've been getting happy results. YMMV
Click to expand...

Nice! Well, there are no numbers to run. :eyebrow: They'd probably sell less to guitar plays if they did :smug: Not even an impedance sweep, which would allow me to figure out at least the Qes and then the f3. I will say that the fs is pretty high, so the Qes would have to be pretty high, too, to make it "ideal" in a sealed box. Then again I know even less about specs for guitar drivers.

It does go nice and high up to 5k and the power handling is decent. And if they sound good they sound good.
 
#31
astack said:
And another idea:
On second thought, the 16 ohm Delta 12B's [del]COULD do well in a 4x12[/del], I think. The TF graph may be tighter, but there's A LOT of power capacity, 500 cc Vd and with 4 of any driver the ability to boost the bass knob is greatly increased. @ 11lbs each, it's not gonna be light, it could be maybe 2/3rds the weight of an NV412.
Click to expand...

Scratch that. 2.4mm Xmax can only do so much.
 
#32
Don't forget the enclosure :p could use some foam, but 1.25 cf would work well for these guys.

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Gah, the 12-200's are staring me down right now. :spit: I looked more closely at the FR charts and it looks like they might slightly edge out the others in terms of high end plus the price and weight, I'm leaning towards those. A pair delivered for $135. I have a donor cab I could use, too. It'd be so easy... We'll see if my resolve will hold through the weekend... :help:
 
#33
Well, I've apparently lost my mind, because I've got 5 drivers coming my way, one of each of the original 4 and an extra 2512. :help::help: You can't start a thread with "Showdown" in the title and just TALK, right? :hiding:

Stay tuned for some comparisons.

One thing I'm curious about is how the 12-500LF mixes with the other less robust speakers. That could do the 3x12 thing with the wrong wiring, since the 500LF can handle so much more power. That's ASSuming the lighter one has a nicer top end and the 500LF has a better low end. It'd be like a 4x12 in terms of output when pushed at the same weight but smaller package. Because of the staggered alignment of the 4x12, it's probably similar height. I'm thinking it could work because of how similarly they all model in terms of frequency response.

And I wish I had an NV412 around to test, for science of course :smug:
 
#35
Haha, very convenient. Just hop on the pacific rim express...

Should have all but the S2012 on Monday, so I'm stoked. The Basslite I ordered from US Speaker and haven't heard from them. I hope Al and shop are OK. I know NJ took a pretty bad hit with the hurricane. :( Happy to wait it out as I'm sure they could use the business.
 
#36
JGR said:
Yup, agree and its a bummer cause 12's have a nice form factor in many regards - vertical 10's are too tippy, and 3x15 is just... big. The NV412 does pretty well in terms of packaging and dispersion with the staggered driver arrangement. Seems like a good compromise. I wish there was a better selection of 12's to choose from.
Click to expand...

Hey JGR, did you ever try out one of the Weber 12's? I saw the thread with BFM et al dissing the lack of specs, but just curious if you had anyway.
 
#38
astack said:
Hey JGR, did you ever try out one of the Weber 12's? I saw the thread with BFM et al dissing the lack of specs, but just curious if you had anyway.
Click to expand...

No, I was waiting for them to get their TS specs which they kept promising were right around the corner.... that was a year ago. :( I wouldn't have a problem giving their 10s a whirl since we know they were based off the CTS 810s, but building a cab around their 12 or 15 is a total shot in the dark and not worth the effort (without TS) IMO. In hindsight, I'm glad I went the route I did because I got a unique vintage vibe along with modern, super-high performance.
 
#39
kringle77 said:
Im signed on to this one! I've modeled the 2512 in a sealed cab and it looks similar to my nv610. I've wondered how it really sounds up top and what it feels like under the fingers.
Click to expand...

Great, because I blame your threads for this madness. ;)

JGR said:
No, I was waiting for them to get their TS specs which they kept promising were right around the corner.... that was a year ago. :( I wouldn't have a problem giving their 10s a whirl since we know they were based off the CTS 810s, but building a cab around their 12 or 15 is a total shot in the dark and not worth the effort (without TS) IMO. In hindsight, I'm glad I went the route I did because I got a unique vintage vibe along with modern, super-high performance.
Click to expand...

OK, cool. Yeah, I've been thinking about it, but agree that it's a crap shoot. Maybe I should start a Kickstarter to fund a sample speaker and test equipment. :p

I've still got high hopes for one of these 12's as the form factor and simplicity really appeal to me. The 2-way cabs are great, but I don't have the time and energy to design and test a x-over and try twice as many drivers. I also realized nearly all my gigs are mic'd, so that's driving the FR direction for me as well. I'm working towards getting a nice vintage tube head as my go-to, too, and the lack of DI will make it so it's all mic'd cabs all the time. :hyper: (I sound like a guitard... Let me tell you about "old wood" in vintage cabs :rolleyes:)

If the 12" based cab doesn't work, it'll be on to a staggered .5 aligned 4x10 (think 2/3's Kringle's Berg).

Actual update: I got the Fanes today and was only able to weigh them at lunch. Published weights are accurate. Deltalites coming tomorrow.
 
#40
If you do the staggard 4x10, staggar them upwards by 5" instead of the lower amount that the berg does. That way, you can get the drivers that much higher and it will allow you to build the cab about 20" wide. If you go the weber route, you may want to mix the 10fl and 10fh drivers to get more low end. I've got a pair of 10FH drivers on order because I know that Im going to want alittle more true low end out of my 8x10 (cab should arrive this week, I think) The 10fh are 98db and the 10fl are 95db. I'll keep you posted on the CTS thread and also a new thread when the cab is all together and settled.
 

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