So who else here uses/dabbles with this amazing and strange way to make music? Post your favorite rows, parts of sheet music, tabs etc. And just general discussion about 12 tone in general.
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12 Tone
- Thread starter All_¥our_Bass
- Start date
I dabbled with serial composition when I was at college, but ultimately it violated my number 1 rule, which was: if it sounds good to me, keep it, if it sounds crap, ditch it...
I liked the spikey-ness that 12-tone music can throw up... you can easily find something that twists and turns in interesting ways but I would get 6-7 notes in and often want to channel the melody down a specific resolution that suggested itself, rather than follow strictly 'the rules'... so I ended up with some 'semi-serial' music that I liked...
I liked the spikey-ness that 12-tone music can throw up... you can easily find something that twists and turns in interesting ways but I would get 6-7 notes in and often want to channel the melody down a specific resolution that suggested itself, rather than follow strictly 'the rules'... so I ended up with some 'semi-serial' music that I liked...
Same for me - so I was playing with a pianist in the late 70s who wrote 12-tone pieces and he even wrote one called "bass solo" just for me - but I had the feeling that he saw these as mathematical exercises really.
Nowadays, I prefer Olivier Messiaen's approach to serialism and atonality rather than the strict 12 tone row approach of the "Viennese School".
Nowadays, I prefer Olivier Messiaen's approach to serialism and atonality rather than the strict 12 tone row approach of the "Viennese School".
Well I don't always stay strictly with it either. Once I made a tone row that I use as a chord progression. Like each note was the root off a chord.
Atonal... now I remember why I dislike that term. A lot of tunes considered to be "atonal" are very tonal in their own way.
All Your Bass, I've done that chord progression tone row thing before. You can get some pretty cool results from that technique.
All Your Bass, I've done that chord progression tone row thing before. You can get some pretty cool results from that technique.
I'm a composition major, and my experience is that I'm not a fan. However, I'll admit that I haven't throughly explored the literature for serial music I do enjoy.
If anything, I do like how tone rows tend to remove harmonic progression as a structural musical element. It can make other organizing elements more obvious as a result, I feel.
Of course, maybe it's just not for me. I really can't hear the row, or really any other serialized resources, in most serial music, although it is fun to analyze on paper.
If anything, I do like how tone rows tend to remove harmonic progression as a structural musical element. It can make other organizing elements more obvious as a result, I feel.
Of course, maybe it's just not for me. I really can't hear the row, or really any other serialized resources, in most serial music, although it is fun to analyze on paper.
When I was in college I wrote a twelve-tone piece called "The Easy Piece".
It grew out of the suggestion from a cellist who was playing a solo cello sonata that I wrote. There were many difficult passages in this sonata and he said that I, "... should write easier music. In fact, write a piece and call it "The Easy Piece"."
Another friend of mine was bugging me to write some music for bassoon. I scored "The Easy Piece" for violin, cello, double bass, and bassoon. The strings got the first eleven notes of the row and the bassoon got the remaining note. The total time was under one minute.
Later I expanded the composition into an arching form that lasted just over two minutes.
In some strange way it was a very successful composition. Here is the original row:
0-9-2-10-1-5-6-11-3-7-8-4
While I can't come home after work, crack a beer, put on some twelve-tone and say, "Ahhhhhhh", it is fun to listen to sometimes.
It grew out of the suggestion from a cellist who was playing a solo cello sonata that I wrote. There were many difficult passages in this sonata and he said that I, "... should write easier music. In fact, write a piece and call it "The Easy Piece"."
Another friend of mine was bugging me to write some music for bassoon. I scored "The Easy Piece" for violin, cello, double bass, and bassoon. The strings got the first eleven notes of the row and the bassoon got the remaining note. The total time was under one minute.
Later I expanded the composition into an arching form that lasted just over two minutes.
In some strange way it was a very successful composition. Here is the original row:
0-9-2-10-1-5-6-11-3-7-8-4
While I can't come home after work, crack a beer, put on some twelve-tone and say, "Ahhhhhhh", it is fun to listen to sometimes.
What the hell are you guys talking about and can I hear some examples this all sounds very intriguing.
It's been said that Black Flag dabbles in atonalism from time to time. My favorite is their instrumental cd The Process of Weeding Out.
I'm with The Shadow, what are you guys talking about. I know a little about jazz theory and I have heard of the twelve tone row but I'm not sure hwat it is. Would someone be willing to provide a basic primer?
I also did this in college. It was fun; however, it was very "academic". I probably still have a matrix or two packed away in a box somewhere. To be completely honest; I didn't really dig it in large doses, but it was cool at the time to say that I did.
I remember that some students built their rows in 3rd's. It sounded fairly tonal when they did that.
I felt that the melody/harmony was a little difficult to listen to, so I tried to keep the rhythm active and interesting. I believe that gives the ear something to hold on to.
This isn't 12-tone, but I remember composing a piece for piano with chords spelled in 4th's. I really liked that composition.
Do you have any 12-tone compositions to share?
Joe
I remember that some students built their rows in 3rd's. It sounded fairly tonal when they did that.
I felt that the melody/harmony was a little difficult to listen to, so I tried to keep the rhythm active and interesting. I believe that gives the ear something to hold on to.
This isn't 12-tone, but I remember composing a piece for piano with chords spelled in 4th's. I really liked that composition.
Do you have any 12-tone compositions to share?
Joe
This might help explain 12-tone a little bit:
Invalid Link Removed
I'm sure there are other better websites, but I didn't spend all that much time looking.
Joe
Invalid Link Removed
I'm sure there are other better websites, but I didn't spend all that much time looking.
Joe
theshadow2001 said:
It's like music theory for chromatic, atonal music. It's based around that if you play a note you must play all other notes until you may repeat a note.
It's not such a great system for composing... but then just about any 'system' for creating music is somewhat lacking (why not just use some algorithmic composition program?). Still, the 12 tone system is an interesting thing to play with as a mathmatical exercise, as noted above. One thing that it is good for is breaking habits and finding new sounds, that can then be used in other compositions. Certainly anyone who is interesting in composing music should at least be familiar with it and try a few things. (you never know what you may find).
I think that atonal music is good to play. It keeps us from 'expecting' certain things to hear. I like to play some atonal stuff when I practice just for the challenge.
Anyone in this thread interested in this should listen to some stuff by Arnold Schoenberg, Anton Webern, and Alban Berg and look at some of their scores if you can. Try also looking at a theory book on twelve-tone serialism. I think that the topic is too large to summarize in a reply like this.
Try finding a recording of Schoenberg's 'Suite, Op. 25'. Also, the book "Materials and Techniques of Twentieth-Century Music" by Stefan Kostka has some good information in it.
Anyone in this thread interested in this should listen to some stuff by Arnold Schoenberg, Anton Webern, and Alban Berg and look at some of their scores if you can. Try also looking at a theory book on twelve-tone serialism. I think that the topic is too large to summarize in a reply like this.
Try finding a recording of Schoenberg's 'Suite, Op. 25'. Also, the book "Materials and Techniques of Twentieth-Century Music" by Stefan Kostka has some good information in it.
It might have been "strange and amazing" in the 1920s - but it's been around for nearly a century now!! 
Yeah, it's funny how you can hear lay-people talk about 'modern music and how it sounds so strange' while referencing music from those composers. Yet you never hear them refer to cars from that era as 'amazing and strange'.
I suppose that since the music never really caught on in terms of mass appeal that it can still be rediscovered over and over again. I agree with an earlier poster in that it is a good thing to work with when you have 'composer's block'.
I suppose that since the music never really caught on in terms of mass appeal that it can still be rediscovered over and over again. I agree with an earlier poster in that it is a good thing to work with when you have 'composer's block'.
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