1250W Amp into 600W RMS (1200W Programme) cab safe?

[thehornedone]

New to this whole bass thing. Guitar amplification is simple with 100 watt heads, and cabs that are often rated far above the head itself. Now I've got Speakon cables, peak power, RMS, "Programme" power, clipping, etc. to worry about.

I've already researched it myself, but the answer still isn't clear.

Running a Carvin B1500 into an Ampeg 610HLF.

Carvin: At 4 ohms, rated at 1250W, period. That's the only specification.

Ampeg: 4 ohm, 600W RMS, 1200W Programme.


From what I read, the term Programme or "Program" doesn't mean much of anything technically speaking, but it's supposed to be the effective power of the amp that the cab can take, which is calculated by doubling the average power (600 watts).

To further complicate things, I'm going to be experimenting with a DBX 120x sub-bass synth, which I've heard can put further risk to blowing the drivers.

What's the rule of thumb for thumb here? Just don't crank it and I should be safe? Or will I certainly blow my speakers?

 

[CL400Peavey]

You can run those just fine, but use your ears and what is between them. The amp has more than enough power to turn that cab to ash, and the bass synth only adds to it.

 

[Lethgar]

Ratings are only a guideline. Regardless of rated output and power handling ability in any amp/speaker combination the above post is correct. Have to use your ears.

 

[thehornedone]

Thank you. So, just take it easy and backup if I start hearing speaker distortion...which might be hard since I'm going to be using pedal distortion most of the time?

 

[Lethgar]

Thank you. So, just take it easy and backup if I start hearing speaker distortion...which might be hard since I'm going to be using pedal distortion most of the time?

Correct. I would set levels with pedals off, provided your drives and dirts are set close to unity gain.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Using an overdrive pedal makes everything more difficult to monitor. If you go too far your cabinet will eventually start to fail. There's no absolutes here. If you need to be very loud you might want to consider a second identical cabinet to share the load. As CL advised you, your amp can kill your cabinet very easily. To get loud you need more excursion which means more cones. Adding power is never the way.

 

[Lethgar]

Using an overdrive pedal makes everything more difficult to monitor. If you go too far your cabinet will eventually start to fail. There's no absolutes here. If you need to be very loud you might want to consider a second identical cabinet to share the load. As CL advised you, your amp can kill your cabinet very easily. To get loud you need more excursion which means more cones. Adding power is never the way.

Solid advice here too. That being said a 6x10 driven hard but not overdriven should be more than enough volume for any rock/metal situations I've been in.

 

[RoadRanger]

If your using any kind of overdrive or sub-synth (or even if you're not) you should have your cabs rated at twice the amp power - RMS. Otherwise lots of luck LOL.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Clipping can be particularly more dangerous than you might think. Pushing the amp too hard (that sub synth would likely do it too lol) will make it struggle to reproduce what you want it to if it's pushed too hard. It can fire out higher than peak wattage ratings and really tear speakers up. Everyone has their preferred method, but I like for the peak rating for my head to be within 100w of the RMS rating of my cabinet, or more in favor of the cabinet. If you feel you need more volume, add more speakers instead of more amp watts.

 

[thehornedone]

Thanks guys. I really don't want to lug around TWO 610s. I'll just be conservative I guess and ease into the effects. I was thinking about complimenting the 610 with a 4ohm 1x15 for just a tad more confidence on the power handling. Is that not a good idea?

 

[el murdoque]

You can run those just fine, but use your ears and what is between them. The amp has more than enough power to turn that cab to ash, and the bass synth only adds to it.

This.
An Ampeg 6x10 running at the limit of what can be pushed into it will easily blow the drumkit to pieces before dying the thermal death - so if you see your drummer falling from his chair while the nuts and bolts of his hardware come undone, turn back a little.


You have a powerful amp and a powerful cab. Play it clean to see how much it can take. My guess is that you will reach the limit of what your body can take before you reach the limit of the cab.
On my amp, a Tonehammer 500 with two 212 cabs (each rated at 600W), with the master around 2 o'clock, my vision blurs when playing the low G because my eyeballs pick up the vibrations. I never felt the need to push any further. If the same goes for you you should be safe. If not, turn it to the maximum volume that does not produce any farting or speaker distortion when you're banging your stings as hard as you can. Take it back a bit from there and you should be safe to use distortion - as long as you do not add insane amounts of bass with the pedal.

 

[el murdoque]

Thanks guys. I really don't want to lug around TWO 610s. I'll just be conservative I guess and ease into the effects. I was thinking about complimenting the 610 with a 4ohm 1x15 for just a tad more confidence on the power handling. Is that not a good idea?

absolutely not. the 115 should have twice the resistance than the 610 has. Otherwise you feed half the power into one cab and half the power into the other.
At 600W output, the single 15 would get 300w while the 10's are running at 50W each.
Many people here argue that it is a bad combination to run a 410 with a 115 - a 610 is even worse.

 

[Lowendtech]

Thanks guys. I really don't want to lug around TWO 610s. I'll just be conservative I guess and ease into the effects. I was thinking about complimenting the 610 with a 4ohm 1x15 for just a tad more confidence on the power handling. Is that not a good idea?

I'm thinking that at 2 ohms with 1900 W from the amp, the 4 ohm 115 is going to need a blindfold and a cigarette.

 

[thehornedone]

absolutely not. the 115 should have twice the resistance than the 610 has. Otherwise you feed half the power into one cab and half the power into the other.
At 600W output, the single 15 would get 300w while the 10's are running at 50W each.
Many people here argue that it is a bad combination to run a 410 with a 115 - a 610 is even worse.

Great! Thanks for the heads up.

 

[RoadRanger]

Just as an aside - henceforth I'm not going to even post to any thread about an amp above 500w. I'll just silently watch and chuckle as their crap blows up . My biggest head is a TH350 and I was a bit hesitant to get that. 200 or so watts is fine with me and has me wearing earplugs anyways (as did my V4B in the bad old days).

 

[Marianne O'keefe]

Hi thehornedone, I may be new to Talk Bass, however, I'm well versed when it comes to burning out speaker cabinets. I learn quickly !
A 600 watt RMS or AES standard rating and program power are two completely different specifications. Program is usually double the RMS rating. It sounds like you have double the wattage you need to drive your 600 watt cabinet. Just think of VU meters bouncing from left to right. The 0 db or the red represents danger and 600 watts. Going into the red will damage your speakers. My advice would be invest in replacing the speakers inside of your insufficient speaker cabinet .

 

[bebass]

For a LARGE number of years I have run power amps with 3-4 times the wattage rating as the speaker cabs - and have never blown a cab. Common sense about sound goes a long way. If you just listen you should be fine. Though the sub-harmonic thing does put more concern there.

 

[Marianne O'keefe]

Hi Bebass, what works for one may not work for all. Common sense and experience are also very different. You may be more experienced than thehornedone, however, he is a guitar player operating a bass rig. I work with Professional Sound and wattage is not to be taken lightly. If thehornedone goes beyond the rating of his SVT 610 HLF, I'm sure he will be shopping for a new speaker cabinet. That 3-4 times the wattage you speak of is not for the inexperienced bass guitarist. In fact, my teachers would completely disagree with your practice.

 

[JimmyM]

Thanks guys. I really don't want to lug around TWO 610s. I'll just be conservative I guess and ease into the effects. I was thinking about complimenting the 610 with a 4ohm 1x15 for just a tad more confidence on the power handling. Is that not a good idea?

Not even close to a good idea. You will then be limited by what the 115 can put out, which is usually around the 200-250w limit. However, unless you're planning on gunning your rig as loud as possible, the limits on the 610hlf aren't usually an issue.

 

[CL400Peavey]

My advice would be invest in replacing the speakers inside of your insufficient speaker cabinet .

This is poor advice.

The speakers that will work best in that cab are the ones that it comes with. Other speakers may need modification of the porting to sound good, or to have any kind of power handling.