1250W Amp into 600W RMS (1200W Programme) cab safe?

[Marianne O'keefe]

thehornedone, by complimenting your SVT 610HLF with an additional 15" speaker will change the ohms output of your amp. I'm still new to amplification but it sound like you are going to damage something. I'm in school learning to watch the power meters and hookup diagrams. Changing the ohms is a delicate task.

 

[Marianne O'keefe]

CL400Peavey, you did not offer thehornedone any suggestions. You only said I offered poor advice. Speaker replacement is a much safer option than damaging his speakers by an amplifier twice as powerful as his Ampeg 610 HLF manual suggests. Any customizing requires modifications.

 

[samson3382]

You can run those just fine, but use your ears and what is between them. The amp has more than enough power to turn that cab to ash, and the bass synth only adds to it.

In addition, if the unfortunate situation comes up where you have to share your rig with less experienced, or aware players, or even (god forbid) providing the backline, it'll be that much easier to burn down. (I used to run a GBE1200, was nerve racking.)

 

[samson3382]

This is poor advice.

The speakers that will work best in that cab are the ones that it comes with. Other speakers may need modification of the porting to sound good, or to have any kind of power handling.

And for what it would cost you could buy a 2nd 610.

 

[CL400Peavey]

CL400Peavey, you did not offer thehornedone any suggestions. You only said I offered poor advice. Speaker replacement is a much safer option than damaging his speakers by an amplifier twice as powerful as his Ampeg 610 HLF manual suggests. Any customizing requires modifications.

Actually Marianne, I answered his question. He will be just fine, if he uses his ears and his brain.

Suggesting a speaker swap is a fools errand. He is not going to find 10's drivers that realistically handle more power, and work/sound right in that cab. He actually risks choosing drivers that while may have impressive power handling specs, sound poor in that cab, or alternatively perform so poorly in that cab that they are damaged more easily than the ones in it already.

 

[CL400Peavey]

And for what it would cost you could buy a 2nd 610.

Exactly. That will be ~6 db louder. Much bigger gain than trying to swap speakers.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

yes

 

[Marianne O'keefe]

Sorry guys, I'm trying to post, I'm also attempting to read my alert and it just keeps spinning around.

Thehornedona, I hope you find your solution.

 

[Lethgar]

No need to change drivers. No danger involved. Plenty of volume to be had with some common sense caution. No change to the rig is needed.

 

[Zooberwerx]

For a LARGE number of years I have run power amps with 3-4 times the wattage rating as the speaker cabs - and have never blown a cab. Common sense about sound goes a long way. If you just listen you should be fine. Though the sub-harmonic thing does put more concern there.

Yessir! I routinely run 1500 and 2500 watt power amps in bridged mono to feed a 700 watt 3 X 10 cab. The amps are capable of pushing the full monty provided I feed them a hot enough signal...which I don't. I do have two things going for me: a volume knob and a good set of ears. Why so much power you ask? Simple: I also run sound and needed a stable of amps that could be re-assigned as needed.

Riis

 

[David Jayne]

Fire the guitarist.

 

[Gearhead17]

Just wanted to say that you will probably have lousy results experimenting with a DBX 120x sub-bass synth. That device is designed for a decent to very large PA system with dedicated sub woofers. It can certainly be used with a standard bass cab, just don't expect the cab to put out a lot of power in that frequency range. I suggest trying it out and seeing what happens - a good learning experience.

 

[JimmyM]

thehornedone, by complimenting your SVT 610HLF with an additional 15" speaker will change the ohms output of your amp. I'm still new to amplification but it sound like you are going to damage something. I'm in school learning to watch the power meters and hookup diagrams. Changing the ohms is a delicate task.

A very good point, but the B1500 can handle down to a 2 ohm load, so that's not an issue here. The issue would be the horribly uneven volume levels that would make the 115 pretty much moot and fact that the 115 would limit how loud he can get...he could get louder with the 610 by itself than with the 115 hooked up.

So it's good that you're learning, Marianne. But CL400 is right...the 610hlf uses heavy duty speakers that already operate at the top limits that a 10" speaker can deliver. You might find neodymium speakers that might squeeze a little extra power handling out of them, but not by much. They were also designed to work in that cab, and off the shelf replacements aren't and may not give great results.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Even an 8ohm 15 could get toasted trying to add anything to the mix.

Loved the blindfold and cigarette gag. So sigworthy.

 

[Marianne O'keefe]

Hi JimmyM, I'm still having trouble signing on, it takes several minutes.
Then my post is printed before being completed. Is there a time limit ?
I may need to contact the help desk. You were very polite when posting your comment, thank you. I'm a student at NJCU. We have an Pro Sound course with highly qualified and very knowledgeable teachers. I'm also learning to test tubes and study how low end sound moves air and travels
distance. We use the RJ-45, BNC, and Speaker Wire Tone Generator/Tracer/Tester. They are inexpensive and seem to be durable. We mount speakers inside several different wooden cabinet design's, then test for their response. I've also been reading "thiele small perimeters" and include these specifications in our testing. After school, I work as an assistant for a Music Professor to help pay for my education. Recently, several distributor/ vendors have demonstrated, on campus, their products. I have learned if a speaker is not efficient, it should be removed and replaced. To purchase another of the same inefficient speaker cabinets or use the same insufficient speakers seem to be a waste of time, money, and additional gear to carry.
Last night, the suggestion I made was to replace the speakers.
I sometimes need to be reminded Pro Sound and Bass Guitarist are two completely different studies. Some here made suggestions that theoretically are dangerous and defy logic. Common seance and mathematical or scientific research are at opposite ends of the spectrum. It made me think of adding rocket fuel, in a 4 cylinder car, then drive at 20 miles per hour, without a speed odometer, and use an inexperienced
driver. ??

This is the exact opposite of what I'm being taught in school and is not professional advice. This dangerous practice is not helpful to thehornedone.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

.
I sometimes need to be reminded Pro Sound and Bass Guitarist are two completely different studies. Some here made suggestions that theoretically are dangerous and defy logic.

Really ?

Point them out then, and correct their advice.

The ONLY person that gave bad advice so far has been you !

 

[Lethgar]

I'm hard pressed to think a pro sound technician would label running a higher output rated amplifier into a lower rated cabinet "defying logic". That's laughable at best. It's a power amp into a 6x10. Not everything has to be rocket science. Changing drivers in that cab to match the power amp defies logic

 

[CL400Peavey]

Really ?

Point them out then, and correct their advice.

The ONLY person that gave bad advice so far has been you !

Exactly.

Hi JimmyM, I'm still having trouble signing on, it takes several minutes.
Then my post is printed before being completed. Is there a time limit ?
I may need to contact the help desk. You were very polite when posting your comment, thank you. I'm a student at NJCU. We have an Pro Sound course with highly qualified and very knowledgeable teachers. I'm also learning to test tubes and study how low end sound moves air and travels
distance. We use the RJ-45, BNC, and Speaker Wire Tone Generator/Tracer/Tester. They are inexpensive and seem to be durable. We mount speakers inside several different wooden cabinet design's, then test for their response. I've also been reading "thiele small perimeters" and include these specifications in our testing. After school, I work as an assistant for a Music Professor to help pay for my education. Recently, several distributor/ vendors have demonstrated, on campus, their products. I have learned if a speaker is not efficient, it should be removed and replaced. To purchase another of the same inefficient speaker cabinets or use the same insufficient speakers seem to be a waste of time, money, and additional gear to carry.
Last night, the suggestion I made was to replace the speakers.
I sometimes need to be reminded Pro Sound and Bass Guitarist are two completely different studies. Some here made suggestions that theoretically are dangerous and defy logic. Common seance and mathematical or scientific research are at opposite ends of the spectrum. It made me think of adding rocket fuel, in a 4 cylinder car, then drive at 20 miles per hour, without a speed odometer, and use an inexperienced
driver. ??

This is the exact opposite of what I'm being taught in school and is not professional advice. This dangerous practice is not helpful to thehornedone.

Marianne,

To put things in perspective I have a MS in Physics, and did my research in fluid dynamics. I am not blowing smoke, or trying to insult you. Strictly trying to be direct.

The issue is, you dont just go pull a driver off the shelf that has all the same T/S specs, but increased power handling. There is always a balance. So by just picking drivers by power handling, you run the risk of getting a driver that doesnt line up with the tuning of the ported cab.

This is dangerous, and an example, when the driver is able to "unload", or doesnt have the right back pressure from the cab, which can allow the driver to go past it's excursion limits easily. In some cases, well under the previous power handling.

You also quote efficiency. This can mean different things, to different people, depending on the context. If you mean a db/w/m sensitivity rating, then yes it can be important, depending on the context, but it is only one part of the puzzle. If two drivers have different sensitivities, I ask, "what else is different between them?" Increasing sensitivity at the price of response, or power handling may be ok depending on your design goals, but there is no "1 to 1" change out.

Most importantly, you have to look at the system as a whole. It isnt just the cab, or the speakers, but how they work together. Change one spec, and some of the others are not going to line up right anymore. (that isnt to say you cant find another speaker that works, but it is not determined by power handling alone.)

 

[Passinwind]

Hi JimmyM, I'm still having trouble signing on, it takes several minutes.
Then my post is printed before being completed. Is there a time limit ?

It's not 'printing', it is auto-saving a draft. Reopen the draft and post when you are finished.

 

[will33]

Dump the extra 115 idea. Just use your amp and 610. It will reach volumes that will bury the drums and require earplugs.

Start out by using a completely clean tone and turning up until you hear the first signs of speaker distortion. That's your limit. Then start adding effects.

If your synth pedal adds very low frequency content, cut your volume limit in about half. Those things really require dedicated subwoofers. You'll just be asking the cab to go lower than it's made too, which will shorten its life considerably.