This. Myself and literally thousands of other musicians and FOH people have been running bigger amps into smaller cabs for decades. No fires. No drivers changed.
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1250W Amp into 600W RMS (1200W Programme) cab safe?
- Thread starter thehornedone
- Start date
This. Myself and literally thousands of other musicians and FOH people have been running bigger amps into smaller cabs for decades. No fires. No drivers changed.
Dear Mariane, I appreciate you are on a studious learning path, however your musings stated as advice come over like some know-all punk kid with no actual clue. Sorry, that's just how it is.
You might like to adopt language that is investigative rather than directive. Then you will be rebuked mildly rather than torn a new one when you are barking out of tune.
You might like to adopt language that is investigative rather than directive. Then you will be rebuked mildly rather than torn a new one when you are barking out of tune.
My whole point of my first post to you was to let you know that the speakers in the 610hlf aren't inefficient whatsoever, and are the most efficient choice for that cab. And there is no way you're going to make a 610 that will handle the full brunt of that Carvin amp he's using.
In less-than-thoughtful hands, you are correct that it's not a good thing. But since you're studying pro sound, you will soon find that most pro sound techs use twice as much wattage as their cabs can take for the sole purpose of not clipping the amp, which can take out speakers, especially tweeters, if the clip is hot enough to overpower the speakers. This practice can also be done with bass gear, but the operator must know when to say when with the volume knob. For example, I will use an 800w amp into two 210's sometimes, and these two 210's combine for 400w power handling. I have yet to blow a speaker, either, because I know what I'm doing. You might call them inefficient, but I like the way they sound as they are, and they weren't really designed to be used with an 800w amp, so I just adjust my thinking when I use them and watch my volume. Not a problem.
Years ago, and after some good advice, I upgraded an SWR 115(200watt) to an eminence kappa lite 3015,(450 watt). I had to give box & port dimensions to experts far more knowledgeable than myself, on a forum similar to this, and that was the driver suggested. Couldn't be happier with the results. But I probably got lucky, in a couple ways.
A short time later I looked into trying to do the same with my GB 210, and found that it wouldn't work. Couldn't get ahold of a close enough driver. Only thing I could have really done was get exact replacements, or more cab/cabs.
Marianne I applaud you going to school, ( way to go girl!! 
) but at the age of 18 you still have a long way to go. Bass amplifiers have a lot in common with sound reinforcement (SR) and some major differences. In the SR field distortion is not tolerated and in my system it's not either. Some of us though love distortion and overdrive as part of their tone. In the SR field you seek a balanced mix of highs, mids and lows. Again as do I. Others love the sound of flat wound and tape wound strings that deliver few mid and almost no nights as a rule. It all depends on a particular players wants and needs. Some folks use amps that have a huge amount of output power that can melt voice coils easily. If they know what they are doing and don't just keep on turning up no harm is done. It's when someone thinks that a speaker system can use a gigawatt of power to make his/her 2x10 louder than an 8x10 that problems arise.
As members here we have the whole gamut of educational levels. Some are EE and actually working in the music industry. Others are just very talented people that possibly didn't have the chance of a university education but have learned their lessons dying their playing careers. Quite a few of us are retired, old, and definitely grumpy! We've tried to isolate these miscreants into a club of their own but sometimes they get loose. What I'm trying to say is that you have a lot to teach here but you have also to remember that some of us are instructor too that you can learn from.
OK it's time for my after lunch nap no zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzsnortzzzzzzzz
) but at the age of 18 you still have a long way to go. Bass amplifiers have a lot in common with sound reinforcement (SR) and some major differences. In the SR field distortion is not tolerated and in my system it's not either. Some of us though love distortion and overdrive as part of their tone. In the SR field you seek a balanced mix of highs, mids and lows. Again as do I. Others love the sound of flat wound and tape wound strings that deliver few mid and almost no nights as a rule. It all depends on a particular players wants and needs. Some folks use amps that have a huge amount of output power that can melt voice coils easily. If they know what they are doing and don't just keep on turning up no harm is done. It's when someone thinks that a speaker system can use a gigawatt of power to make his/her 2x10 louder than an 8x10 that problems arise.As members here we have the whole gamut of educational levels. Some are EE and actually working in the music industry. Others are just very talented people that possibly didn't have the chance of a university education but have learned their lessons dying their playing careers. Quite a few of us are retired, old, and definitely grumpy! We've tried to isolate these miscreants into a club of their own but sometimes they get loose. What I'm trying to say is that you have a lot to teach here but you have also to remember that some of us are instructor too that you can learn from.
OK it's time for my after lunch nap no zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzsnortzzzzzzzz
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Marianne will learn more about this stuff as she continues her studies, especially when coming to the subwoofing end of Prosound systems.
Things cannot be narrowed down to simple watt ratings. All the various aspects of the design interact together as an integrated system.
Keep studying and learning and don't let folks scare you away from here. It's a good resource, and eventually you'll be the one with the knowledge to advise other folks who come along with these types of questions.
Things cannot be narrowed down to simple watt ratings. All the various aspects of the design interact together as an integrated system.
Keep studying and learning and don't let folks scare you away from here. It's a good resource, and eventually you'll be the one with the knowledge to advise other folks who come along with these types of questions.
Marianne also consider that the bass response of a driver is related to Xmax, but as Xmax increases drivers almost always become less sensitive (aka efficient in the dB @ 1W/1m test). Also note that sensitivity test results can vary greatly on the test signal used. Often it is a 1 kHz sine wave, although others use a moderately narrow-banded mix, or pink noise.
In the bass world, from what I can see, there are two basic schools of thought on drivers: very efficient, with a low-mid boost built into the cabinet (Eden and SWR) or less efficient with a lot more deep bass (Bergs, AcccuGroove). The second kind of cabinet usually loves power, and given bass program material, can handle an amp rated above the cabinet's thermal limit. Although in this situation the PA-style sub generator could be pretty dangerous.
Anyway suffice it to say "more efficient" isn't always better, especially in the bass where you may be trading off low end energy, with the more efficient driver often rolling off higher than the less efficient one. Might not make a difference for rock, but for funk or reggae or especially down-tuned metal it could make a huge difference.
In the bass world, from what I can see, there are two basic schools of thought on drivers: very efficient, with a low-mid boost built into the cabinet (Eden and SWR) or less efficient with a lot more deep bass (Bergs, AcccuGroove). The second kind of cabinet usually loves power, and given bass program material, can handle an amp rated above the cabinet's thermal limit. Although in this situation the PA-style sub generator could be pretty dangerous.
Anyway suffice it to say "more efficient" isn't always better, especially in the bass where you may be trading off low end energy, with the more efficient driver often rolling off higher than the less efficient one. Might not make a difference for rock, but for funk or reggae or especially down-tuned metal it could make a huge difference.
I appreciate all of your kind sentiments and good thoughts. I have 3 older brothers who had band practice in our garage ever since I can remember. One of them now lives in Daytona Florida and makes more noise with racing engines inside of his garage. If I were to say I do not understand distortion, it would be untrue. I'm a good student and pay attention in school for not only is it so expensive but I really enjoy learning about sound. I also play piano and bass guitar. I thought it would be a good idea to hear oppinions from more experienced players. Last night, when I was reading about sending twice, three and four times the amount of power through Ampeg / Eminence speakers, that did not sound like very good advice. In class we learn to match specific specifications and for good reason. Someone also said pay no attention to the speaker specifications. If I gave the impression of "coming over like some know-all punk kid with no actual clue" that was never my intention. Going back to read some of others comments, it sounds like everyone has there own way of doing things. It may be in my best interest not to offer help here due to so many knowing exactly what to do. I also noticed I am the only female and probably the youngest here.
You are by far not the only gal here, but admittedly, there are fewer female gear nerds so they don't hang out in Amps as much. But they're here. In addition, many of the best and brightest amp/cab designers in the world also hang out here, and they will certainly educate you. I'm not one of them
but I know the basics of how it all works thanks to them. And the number one lesson of all is that if your rig sounds like it may explode, it will, so either expand your rig or turn down, and one or the other will solve your problem.
JimmyM, maybe you are correct. I will try another category. This channel has too much distortion. 
JimmyM, maybe you are correct. I will try another category. This channel has too much distortion.
I think you should do as I do. Help when you can and learn when you cannot! None of us want to drive you away. You are undoubtedly an up and coming mind. Keep it open and you'll find stuff here that you'll come across nowhere else!!
Hi BassmanPaul, There are a few here who intentionally drive others away. My question, why the administrator would permit this type of behavior ?
I'm sorry for my part at least if it seemed I was driving you away. In no way was that my intention. However I would hate to see OP chasing down new drivers for a cabinet that is perfectly adequate for the situation.
It's a worldwide public forum of many nationalities, personalities, cultures, ages, senses if humor, etc. What may seem offensive to one may be norm for another, though we understand that and get along for the most part.
To me, your writing style does not seem like any 18 year old I've met for example.
TB is a boisterous, but ultimately friendly community. Did I mention boisterous? I would not take it personally, we're passionate about bass and gear, and sometimes people will post with too much force, but really it's not personal. The admins do weed out the true problem children, trust me, it does happen. Amps is one of the more fierce places in TB, lots of engineers, lots of experience, and lots of strong opinions.
It seems to me, since amp and speaker cabinet design is about trade-offs, there isn't just one way to skin the cat. People do have their preferred ways of doing things, and they will argue about it. Effects is super friendly and very chill, except if you go in there and post about not needing/liking effects! Don't do that. But other than that, very relaxed. So is the Doom mega-thread, although that's almost a closed community, sometimes I read that and feel like everything is in code, or inside joke after inside joke. It's still pretty funny and certainly friendly. So don't give up on TB just yet.
Also, here in amps, you can back up your assertions by dropping links to your textbooks or other technical materials and people will read the reference material and will post intelligently, which is pretty awesome on the internet. Like if you post a spec sheet for drivers the OP could use, with a reasonably close match on the T/S params to his current drivers but higher power capacity, we'll have to accept that might be a solution for OP, albeit not without expense, but probably cheaper than a second 610. Very few people on TB cannot be reasoned with.
It seems to me, since amp and speaker cabinet design is about trade-offs, there isn't just one way to skin the cat. People do have their preferred ways of doing things, and they will argue about it. Effects is super friendly and very chill, except if you go in there and post about not needing/liking effects! Don't do that. But other than that, very relaxed. So is the Doom mega-thread, although that's almost a closed community, sometimes I read that and feel like everything is in code, or inside joke after inside joke. It's still pretty funny and certainly friendly. So don't give up on TB just yet.
Also, here in amps, you can back up your assertions by dropping links to your textbooks or other technical materials and people will read the reference material and will post intelligently, which is pretty awesome on the internet. Like if you post a spec sheet for drivers the OP could use, with a reasonably close match on the T/S params to his current drivers but higher power capacity, we'll have to accept that might be a solution for OP, albeit not without expense, but probably cheaper than a second 610. Very few people on TB cannot be reasoned with.
This is a forum open to everyone. Some folks get a kick out of putting others down. If the Mods catch it they will intervene. You have to cover yourself with a thick skin sometimes. It's simply easier that way. If someone is deliberately rude to you just consider the source and put it behind you. From experience I can tell you that you'll have to face much, much worse in your voyage through life and through your professional career.
May I wish you the best with your education. I remember mine all too well. I did eventually become an EE but it was a truly long journey.
- Sep 3, 2006
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Hi Marianne,JimmyM, maybe you are correct. I will try another category. This channel has too much distortion.
It is cool you are going into the audio/sound field. Please stay on these channels with "distortion"; perhaps you can apply an enhancer to clean up the sound; that enhancement can be just - hang in there and be a contributor. There are plenty of people who don't know and you can help. But do realize we have a high concentration of very experienced people with a lot of EE folks (I am one) and folks who attended graduate school in acoustics (me too). Also, many of the experienced people are from the very groups you probably admire or listen to. I think you can find and maintain friends as well as contacts that may last a lifetime.
