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12's or 10's, it never neds!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by MMStingRay, Sep 16, 2004.


  1. MMStingRay

    MMStingRay

    Aug 17, 2004
    Michigan
    supported by Hipshot, Diamond strings and Clayton picks
    I started checking the forum because I wanted to get a 410 cabinet. I was asking about different cabinets and i found everyone has an opinion (who would have know?)..

    But one thing I didn't plan on was starting to think of not what maker of cabinet but what kind cabinet? I stated with a want for 410's on top of my 115 to clean up the sound and the punch of my rig. (have 210's now). But now I'm thinking get myself two 212's? I'm more messed up then before.

    I'd like to here from people who use 212 cabinets and people that don't like them (if there are any). Why 212's over 410's?
    Or is it 212's and 412's?

    I'm getting the idea that 212's are to replace the 115 and not to run them together.

    212's? 412's? 212's and 210's? 212's and 410's? Oh God help me, it never ends!
     
  2. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    It really does never end!!.....but out of all the cabinets I own, my Bergie 2/12 has kept me happier than any other cabinet I've owned. IMHO....it has punch/low end & clarity unlike any other cabinet I've owned. I also have a Bergie 3/10 that also rules......and two bergie HT112's....that rule.........oh never mind.....I'm just a biased Bergie head :D
     
  3. James Hart

    James Hart

    Feb 1, 2002
    toms_river.nj.us
    Endorsing Artist: see profile
    I prefer 12" speakers in general. My current cab is a 12" and a 10" .... shortly I'll be running a 2x12" and a 12"+10".

    In the past I ran a 1x12" cab and a 1x15" together with good results.

    before that... I ran a 4x12" and a 1x18"
     
  4. inazone

    inazone

    Apr 20, 2003
    Colorado
    I run 410, 212. Great combo!
     
  5. Danm

    Danm

    Sep 24, 2003
    Canberra Australia
    Normally run 2x12 + 1x15 but the other day I tried 2x12 + 4x10....

    I Liked It!!!

    :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

    Sorry if this has confused the situation more!!
    :bag:
     
  6. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    I've owed 210's, 310's, 410's, 112's, 212's, and 115's, and I've run them in different combinations together and separately. There is no real right or wrong. One combination might work in one setting and not another. I'm not really a fan of most 15's, so I tend to stay away from them for the most part. Sure, once in a while that warm tubby roundness is nice, but I prefer a tighter punchier tone. See what works for you and remember: The more versatile your rig is, the less likely you are to get that GAS bug nipping at your heels so quickly... OK, well maybe not, but at least you won't necessarily need anything else per se. ;)
     
  7. MMStingRay

    MMStingRay

    Aug 17, 2004
    Michigan
    supported by Hipshot, Diamond strings and Clayton picks
    I'm thinking dropping the 210/115 rig and going with 212/410 rig. Hoping to loss the BOOM and keep the bottem and tighten up the top end.
    A couple of you said it sound good and I was leaning that way when I started the thread. " Anyone have anything bad to say about this idea before I make it happen"? I live and die on TB advise!

    Also thinking Avatar! ????
     
  8. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    I've used my Bergantino 3/10 on top of my Bergie 2/12 for some loud gigs........scary :cool:
     
  9. morebass!

    morebass! I'm listening

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    I've played lots of different cabs and now have Avatar 212 and 210 cabs. The 12s boom and the 10s punch. I'd like to replace the 210 with a 410 or maybe the whole rig with a 610 but I'm afraid that I'd run out of lows which is a very bad thing for us non-PA clubbers. If I had a PA pushing air for me I'd probably go with all 10s. Portability is another related issue. 410 cabs are very heavy. I find that I can easily lift and manuver my avatar 212 but the usual 410 weight is prohibitive. Even with a cart you still have to lift it in and out of the vehicle and deal with stairs etc. So I like the sound of 10s better but to get enough low end I'd need at least 6 if not 8 of them so I use 12s and 10s as compromise. Boom and punch!
     
  10. MMStingRay

    MMStingRay

    Aug 17, 2004
    Michigan
    supported by Hipshot, Diamond strings and Clayton picks
    Thanks!
    The Avatar B410NEO sounds like you (from looking at the specs).
    It's 20lbs less then the Delta and it drops to 55Hz.

    I worry 410's or 212's by them selfs isn't enough but together it should KICK A@#... Your thoughts?

    How do you like the Avatar's?
     
  11. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    Nw that you're unconfused let me confuse you again

    it really never does NED :p

    one thing to keep in mind that different manufacturer's 10s sound different, as do 12s, as do 15s, etc. Driver design and cabinet design play a large role in the overall sound, so you can't always generalize about a particular diameter speaker sounding punchy, tubby, edgy, bassy, etc. A lot of 15s do sound tubby, but i dont think you could say that about a bag end s15-d (yeah so i like bag end - humor me all of you who are sick of me praising them - :p ). That particular cabinet is 18.5"x18.5"x15" and ends up being very punchy. Now, bag end takes the same speaker, puts it in a much larger cabinet, ( 18.5"x28.5"x24.5" - they call it the s15b-d, i think "b" must stand for BIG), that cabinet sounds much bassier and fuller than the small one, but isn't really tubby. I demod a beg end 1x18 once that was in an enormous cabinet. It had lots of low end, but it was one of the most articulate 18s i ever heard. When i originally heard it someone else was playing thru it and i refused to belive that it was the cabinet they were using. I was looking for the 2x10!

    My aguilar gs-112 actually has more low end than my bag end 15, and gets darned close to being tubby. It really doesn't have the agressive mids that the bag end s15-d has either. So you end up with a 15 and a 12 which sound like they get switched at birth. Comparing my bag end s12-d to the 2 becomes interesting. The bag end 12 has much more aggressive mids than the 15, but not as much lows. It's actually punchier sounding and more aggressive than a lot of 10s, and even some 8s! Comparing the bag end and aguilar 12s to each other you would refuse to belive that they are both 12s if you come in with preconceived notions of what a 12 is supposed to sound like.

    Comparisons with 10s yeild similar results. My old swr 410 pretty much sounded what 10s are supposed to sound like - very punchy and assertive (but not as much as bag end 12s) and the cabinet had really decent low end. The eden 210xlt i used to own was very different, it was punchy to a degree, but had a low mid bump that made it fuller sounding than my bag end 15. The bag end 210 (d10b-d) i just bought from nightbass seems to have more low end than my 15, but isnt as aggresive as my 12. But it does have a difference in tonality in the mids that the other 2 cant get.

    To further complicate matters, a lot of times cabinets with multiple drivers sound different than ones by the same manufacturer with fewer of the same drivers. Go and try a 112 and 212 from either bergantino or epifani and you'll see what i mean. The bigger boxes have a lot more low end. If you can demo the swr 8x8 and 4x8 together the difference is unreal. The 8x8 has huge tubby low end, the 4x8 is a midrange monster but a little anemic. FWIW, the bag end 212 sounds pretty much the same as the 112 because they are totally isolated from each other and each chamber is identical to one 112 cab.

    Finally, when you take multiple smaller cabs and use them together a lot of times they dont sound like one of them only louder. Put 2 bag end 115s or 2 bergantino 112s together and you'll notice more apparent low end than one cabinet by iteslf.

    What does all this mean? Just that the overall descriptions of what different diameter drivers sound like are useful up to a point. After that, you have to go back to listening with your ears and not with your eyes. (or with spec sheets). I'm sure this really only confused you more. :meh: But the basic idea is not to get hung up on what size speakers to get, it really comes down to how you like the way specific cabinets sound, alone and together.


    [​IMG]
     
  12. MMStingRay

    MMStingRay

    Aug 17, 2004
    Michigan
    supported by Hipshot, Diamond strings and Clayton picks
    Bag end looks COOL, I never played it. What's the price tag?


    Also, Any one play the Avatar B410NEO or B410PRO?

    The Delta got great reviews, how do the others sound and compare?
     
  13. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    bag end 115s w/o the coaxial tweeter go for about 400, a 112 is more like 340. the 115 with the coaxial tweeter go for closer to 600. i forget how much the 210s cost (i got mine used) The 115s come up on e-bay every so often and you'ss see various bag end cabs here for sale. There is a discontinued 210 cabinet that is shallower than the new ones and is very portable. sounds great but not quite the same lows (a pair sounds killer though). those usually go for abut 350 used when they have the coaxial tweeter in one of the 10s.
     
  14. MMStingRay

    MMStingRay

    Aug 17, 2004
    Michigan
    supported by Hipshot, Diamond strings and Clayton picks
    Avatar is looking better and better!
     
  15. James Hart

    James Hart

    Feb 1, 2002
    toms_river.nj.us
    Endorsing Artist: see profile
    in the way a Squier Affinity Jazz looks better then a Fender FMT Jazz. :meh:


    Ivan, nice rig! I ran an S12 and S15 (birch ... pre Red & coax stuff) for most of the 90's... great stuff, I much prefered the punch, cut and tone of the S12 over the S15 if picking between the 2.

    :smug: I'll never go back now that I have my Schroeders :smug:
     
  16. MMStingRay

    MMStingRay

    Aug 17, 2004
    Michigan
    supported by Hipshot, Diamond strings and Clayton picks
    I'm not saying Bag end is bad. I run a SWR rig now and thought about a new Ampeg and am looking at new cabs now.
    I'm getting great feed back about Avatar (i've never heard or seen the up close) if you can give me negitives I'd love to listen.. That's what I'm looking for is any bad news.. If only the people that like them talk I'll never get anything but happy replies.
     
  17. Squidfinger

    Squidfinger I wish I could sing like Rick Danko.

    Jan 7, 2004
    Shreveport LA
    I'm getting rid of my 4X10 for a 2X12 just because I can't carry the 4X10 by myself and I'm tired of dragging it around. I also think the 2X12 will handle a 5-string better.
     
  18. Hmm, I thought I was going to just go for an Avatar B210 and 2 Avatar B112s, but now they have the NEO and PRO models too...jeez. I think this rig would be quite versatile...a single 112 or the 210 for small gigs; 210 and a single 112 for bigger gigs; both 112s for rather large gigs; and 210+115H AND both 112s for huge gigs. :bag:
     
  19. FERNDOGG

    FERNDOGG

    Jun 30, 2004
    for all you guys that compare alot of different cabs....... which 4x10 cab do you find to have the must BASS to it?.... :bassist:
     
  20. MMStingRay

    MMStingRay

    Aug 17, 2004
    Michigan
    supported by Hipshot, Diamond strings and Clayton picks
    I think I'm going to try the Avatar B410NEO. I've heard real good things about the B410Delta but the NEO is lighter and has a lower Freq from looking at the web sight. The B410Pro maybe lower yet but I'm not picking up that cabinet @ 100lbs too many times. (Neo is 65lbs)

    To me it's like this (someone tell me if I'm wrong!).. :confused:

    Avatar;
    B410Delta = Ampeg BSE410H or SWR WM410
    B410Neo = Ampeg DSEHLF or SWR Pro410
    B410PRO = Ampeg SVT410HLF