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$17,000 1958 P-Bass

#81
Even if I had money to burn, I'd be hard pressed to drop 17K on that bad boy ... despite it being rarer than hen's teeth and cooler than a penguin's basement. I would always be worried about it ... particularly at some of the scummy little joints I play at where stages are few, space for the musicians is cramped and there are no barriers between the audience and the band's gear. I had a totally refinished '57 P, an all original '58 P back and an all original '60 stack knobs J back in the late 70's/early 80's when I was playing full time. Got them for $250, $500 and $550 respectively ($831, $1662 and $1828 - inflation adjusted for 2016) back in the golden era when they were still just considered to be "used instruments" before vintage mania took hold of the market. Despite loving them dearly, I ended up liquidating them to help finance my return to the classroom to get a computer science degree. I have some P and J basses today that I consider to be just as good as their (above) pre-CBS counterparts and there are all kinds of boutique Fender knock offs that are quite good as well (and can be had for WAY, WAY, WAY less money) ... Sadowsky, Mike Lull, Lakland, Fender Custom Shop ... just to name a few. That 17K P is a super cool museum piece in my book, but not really what I'd call a player's axe.
 
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#83
I was bragging to my bandmates about the '61 Jazz I got really cheap at an estate sale last month. The sax player was unimpressed saying his Selmer tenor sax is older than that and isn't really considered vintage! I've got an upright piano from the 1920s that was made in Chicago and that thing isn't worth more than a hundred bucks!
 
#87
Ant Illington said:
Markets do fluctuate. However, I have a friend who plays and collects all sorts of stuff- vintage, Custom Shop, relatively cheap Replica/Tribute guitars... and lots of each. Certain guitars are just like works of fine art to collectors. There are LOTS of people with LOTS of money (think doctors and businessmen- not to mention music industry gazillionaires- a lot of them with serious passion for this stuff, not just a game) who will always be there to collect art/preserve history, in this case (no pun intended), guitars. It amazes me but it's true. It's quite like the housing crash- the instrument market got crushed and weeded out a big chunk of regular guys who got in over their heads speculating for profit (like amateur house flippers) and then the market largely fixed itself when the rich guys came in and swooped in for bargains and they will hold that shtick FOREVER if necessary, thereby reducing supply on the market, particularly in the high-end, well-regarded markets (SF, NYC- likewise, Vintage Fender, Gibson). Based on what I've watched him do for the past 20 years, and I'm being totally unbiased and not at all in the game... markets fluctuate but the general trend will be up unless its the end of the world when nothing really matters anyway. Same logic as the stock market, I suppose.
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Hence what I said about the that there will be certain pieces and people that will keep the prices of the really special, historic and significant stuff up.
I'm a "custom shop guy", myself. And I play guitar and know stuff about Strats and Les Pauls etc., am a member on guitar forums, and so forth. And the one thing about those who keep the market for Bursts alive have in common is this: They're old. Like really, really old. And the music that was made that got those guitars the attention that it did, is also old. The younger people don't care enough. Like on the guitar side; one guy that has got props for having "really good Stratocaster tone" for instance; is John Mayer. And he got this praise from playing "The Black One"; a Fender Custom Shop guitar made not that long ago. And I agree; the tone in that guitar beats any vintage Strat I've ever heard or any "rock god player"; Clapton, SRV, Hendrix etc
And so it goes; Fender CS re-issued that guitar charging big bucks, other people making it because the price of the 83 available went through the roof, people making replicas of the pick ups in that guitar etc. Also Mark Knopfler uses only his signature Strats now, on records and live. And judging by his reaction to his Les Paul signature that has just come out; the same may happen with those. And if that's the case, it pretty much slams the door shut on the whole vintage thing as far as I'm concerned. If a guy like him, with his ears, gives the new stuff the thumbs up... I'll find out the next time I see him live I guess... :) Another thing, as far as guitars go if you want good tone, that I usually say when I see people complaing that "somethings missing with my re issue" is go up a gauge in strings, start playing 11s!, you know? So many of those people play like 9 gauge string, and I just go in my head "Come on!" A standard Les Paul Re Issue with 11s will sound better than a original Burst with 10s every day of the week. And I'm not taking that back! :P ;)

 
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#89
AS for whether I'd buy it if I had the money, the answer is probably no. For whatever reason (and I've been saying this for a long time), to me a P is kind of a P. J Basses are all over the map (and, I would, in a heartbeat pay 17k for the right J if I had it), but Ps are reliably Ps. Maybe I'm just not a connoisseur, but it's hard to screw up a P bass (but by extension, there are a lot of really great ones for less money)
 
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#93
SteveC said:
Nice stuff at that shop. There's a '66 (birth year for me) jazz there that's pretty nice. Always thought a birth year bass would be cool.
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Likewise. This P is my birth year. It would be kind of cool to own something that is as as old as I am. BUT, even still, I would have to have a lot of money to justify the price, and I would want to play it so it would have to sound great and play really well.
 
#95
holdfast said:
This is a very interesting point, and it makes sense to me completely. This is purely anecdotal, so grain of salt time, but my kids and the kids of my friends and acquaintances are by and large just not interested in rock, and thus not interested in traditional rock instruments like guitars, bass, drums. In my circle, it's become exceptional to hear of a young teenager who plays electric guitar. I dunno, I could be wrong, maybe it's just where I live and the people I know. But I wonder if the prevalence of programmed sounds and beats in popular music, is causing kids not to be interested in guitars anymore?
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True...but you are missing country music and the sub genres of blues, Americana, funk, soul etc....even though they aren't huge like stuff on the pop charts, the following is very steady and growing.

MANY more rap acts using live instruments these days as well.

My friend from Kansas City is the lead guitarist for Florida Georgia Line, its mostly guitar based "Bro Country" music and the crowds are HUGE.

I live in a rural area (but frequent the big city all the time), there are lots of very young girls interested in guitar in my area.
 
#96
Dynacord said:
It was either 1999 or 2000.

Earlier, in the 80s, I remember finding a '59 gold guard with slab rosewood board in a pawn shop for $275! And didn't have the money at the time.... Gone by the time I got it together. One of those great ones that got away.

I also had a '58 3 tone burst which I paid the nose-bleed price of $2,200 for from Norm Harris (so that was very much market value at the time) in the 90s. That was later owned by the bass player in the band Live.
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In the early 80's, i can't recall any 50's Fender under $1000 in my area unless it was the cheaper models...Strats, Teles, P and J basses were never cheap anywhere...but I didn't hit pawns in those days much like I should have, mainly music stores.

My buddy, who still has a huge vintage collection, bought his stuff out of the newspaper and hit guitar shows since the mid 70's along with a few pawns...mainly the newspaper, he bought a 56 Goldtop with Tuneomatic that was painted blue for $75 in the late 70's!!
 
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#98
DavidEdenAria said:
In the early 80's, i can't recall any 50's Fender under $1000 in my area unless it was the cheaper models...Strats, Teles, P and J basses were never cheap anywhere...but I didn't hit pawns in those days much like I should have, mainly music stores.

My buddy, who still has a huge vintage collection, bought his stuff out of the newspaper and hit guitar shows since the mid 70's along with a few pawns...mainly the newspaper, he bought a 56 Goldtop with Tuneomatic that was painted blue for $75 in the late 70's!!
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I worked in a vintage guitar shop and warranty repair shop in the early '90s. I know many, many stories of great deals scored at garage sales, rest homes, newspaper classifieds and pawn shops in the pre-internet savvy days. One that stands out was a completely unmolested Fender Broadcaster with 'poodle' case and tweed amp for $80. And an early 60s Hofner Beatle bass for $20 at a garage sale. The flip side is a whole lot of butchered examples (which is why a premium on clean originals does make some degree of sense - there's been a lot of attrition). Also worked in Jim Messina's recording studio and he had an amazing collection; many pieces bought for under $100 back in the 60s and 70s and he knew enough to be able to tell the good examples from the average ones.

But even in the mid 80s in California it was not hard to find pre-CBS basses (always cheaper than the guitars) for under $1K. I even remember examples in shops like Guitars R Us and Voltage in Hollywood. The Recycler newspaper in LA was a treasure trove.
 
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#99
I'd buy that if I was looking for an investment in that price range. I certainly wouldn't get it with the idea that it was going to be some kind of daily player. If I really just wanted one to play, I'd get a CS. I'd make sure it all works and plays decently and then put it somewhere safe with the hope that in 25 years I could make a nice profit that beats an average investment.
 
#100
Dynacord said:
I worked in a vintage guitar shop and warranty repair shop in the early '90s. I know many, many stories of great deals scored at garage sales, rest homes, newspaper classifieds and pawn shops in the pre-internet savvy days. One that stands out was a completely unmolested Fender Broadcaster with 'poodle' case and tweed amp for $80. And an early 60s Hofner Beatle bass for $20 at a garage sale. The flip side is a whole lot of butchered examples (which is why a premium on clean originals does make some degree of sense - there's been a lot of attrition). Also worked in Jim Messina's recording studio and he had an amazing collection; many pieces bought for under $100 back in the 60s and 70s and he knew enough to be able to tell the good examples from the average ones.

But even in the mid 80s in California it was not hard to find pre-CBS basses (always cheaper than the guitars) for under $1K. I even remember examples in shops like Guitars R Us and Voltage in Hollywood. The Recycler newspaper in LA was a treasure trove.
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I was ignorant! I spent way too much time in music stores instead of all the places you mentioned.

I am in awe of you working for Jim Messina....love Poco and all Jim Messina did with Kenny Loggins.

What did Messina have for basses?
 
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