18" - why no love?

[Dash Lashes]

i totally cant read "xmax" w/o always thinking of:

this rare pedal can do xmas:
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[BurningSkies]

I do my best not to 'do xmas' with my speakers. It's not a good thing per se.

 

[Dash Lashes]

I do my best not to 'do xmas' with my speakers. It's not a good thing per se.

seriously though... they seem to name pedals everything under the sun... a lot of the names dont even give hint to what they're designed to do to your tone ... but back to the serious part, i'd love to see one made to "do 118"... take my money!

 

[Downunderwonder]

Xmax is only one aspect of displacement performance... the other is sensitivity the third is power handling. If you lose 3dB due to sensitivity (because of longer Xmax) but gain 3dB due to more displacement at the longer Xmax, you really aren't gaining anything useful.

If you aren't paying for the power you have. Just get the next size up of amp.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Some more examples of my simple Before the "New" Math...and, before we had good Powerful P.A.'s!

What's the REAL Math on these? !

Ceiling plasterer hourly rate x #hours to replaster + ( LxW of room )×material metre rate = cost of repairs. If the room isn't rectangular you're on your own.

 

[elkkid2]

Ceiling plasterer hourly rate x #hours to replaster + ( LxW of room )×material metre rate = cost of repairs. If the room isn't rectangular you're on your own.

Hahaha! True!

 

[Shardik]

Kind of a moot point if you are crossing over at 800hz.

Not really, but it depends on the crossover. A 12dB/octave crossover will only dampen that resonant peak around 15dB or so. Depending on the relative amplitude of that peak, my guess is that it will still be something to take into account.

 

[zon6c-f]

I have owned a Sunn 118-vh folded horn, which I bought used in 1979.

Although it is heavy, It never failed me and has stronger highs than most and soooo much depth. It handled high d# on G string and gut wrenching depth on E String as well.

I continue to have much love for 18's, especially in folded horn boxes; whether W-horn or other variants.

 

[mindwell]

Sorry to be the one to share this, but according to Bill Fitzmaurice, it turns out that we who love 18" drivers are all wet. Read it and weep.

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[cfsporn]

Sorry to be the one to share this, but according to Bill Fitzmaurice, it turns out that we who love 18" drivers are all wet. Read it and weep.

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I wonder if his opinions have changed in the intervening decade.

 

[Dash Lashes]

Sorry to be the one to share this, but according to Bill Fitzmaurice, it turns out that we who love 18" drivers are all wet. Read it and weep.

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the heart wants what it wants

 

[HaphAsSard]

Sorry to be the one to share this, but according to Bill Fitzmaurice, it turns out that we who love 18" drivers are all wet. Read it and weep.

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Huh? He just says eighteens are not a good idea in high powered horn designs, that's all.

 

[agedhorse]

Huh? He just says eighteens are not a good idea in high powered horn designs, that's all.

Yes, this is generally true unless the horn scales up considerably. By this time, it becomes quite impractical though. One of the challenges is to develop sufficient motor strength and diaphragm rigidity to overcome the forces of compression that result. The larger the cone the more difficult as there is a squared factor in the stiffness equations which works against getting too large.

 

[UncleBalsamic]

I wonder if his opinions have changed in the intervening decade.

I'm not super well up on cab design, but he's only talking about horns right? And simplexx cabs are bass reflex designs (???). I'm sure Bill will come and correct me if that's all terribly wrong

 

[fdeck]

I'm not super well up on cab design, but he's only talking about horns right? And simplexx cabs are bass reflex designs (???). I'm sure Bill will come and correct me if that's all terribly wrong

Sadly, Bill abandoned the forum long ago.

Simplexx cabs are bass reflex. Just like the "small, loud, low" rule for box speakers, there is a similar rule for horns, where the dimensions of the mouth determine the low frequency response of the system, more or less. I suspect that in order for a horn to provide any useful advantage over a reflex cab for an 18" driver, it would have to be gi-normous. This is a case where driver choice stems from system goals, rather than the other way around.

 

[UncleBalsamic]

Sadly, Bill abandoned the forum long ago.

Simplexx cabs are bass reflex. Just like the "small, loud, low" rule for box speakers, there is a similar rule for horns, where the dimensions of the mouth determine the low frequency response of the system, more or less. I suspect that in order for a horn to provide any useful advantage over a reflex cab for an 18" driver, it would have to be gi-normous. This is a case where driver choice stems from system goals, rather than the other way around.

Cheers for the reply. Looks like I had the broad ideas right (I should sit down and study this stuff some day, it's fascinating). Also I didn't know Bill isn't round here anymore. That's a shame

 

[spigmu]

Well, in general, a 118 will shove more air then a 410, in general because the majority of 18"s has a larger xmax then most 10's.
When xmax is the same it's approx the same.
Remember that you need to shove 2 times as much air(volume) to increase the spl with 3dB.

But if something is capable of moving more air but more slowly it's not all win, at least in my feeble reasoning. I don't have much experience with 18" cabs but what it it did tell me was that they noticeably didn't respond quick enough, so it didn't matter how loud or good they sounded.

I want two of them Carvin 18s, run em at two ohms, sludge band. All about that look.

Not playing sludge anymore is the problem

I hear ya. I miss the days where you had certain gear so you found a band it would fit with, not the reverse like today.

 

[CL400Peavey]

But if something is capable of moving more air but more slowly it's not all win, at least in my feeble reasoning. I don't have much experience with 18" cabs but what it it did tell me was that they noticeably didn't respond quick enough, so it didn't matter how loud or good they sounded.

I dont think you understand how sound works. 40hz is the same speed regardless of what size driver produces it. Same with 100hz, and 1000hz. By definition they are the same speed.

 

[BurningSkies]

Slow waves. The problem that's plagued bass from the beginning.

 

[Passinwind]

Slow waves. The problem that's plagued bass from the beginning.

Only the ocean going ones.