1st gig w/sound guy, dumb amp/Di question

[awilkie84]

All the advice you've gotten here is really good, but one piece I'd like to throw in is this. When you get to the bar, introduce yourself to the sound guy (or gal) and ask them how they would prefer for you to do it. If you explain that it is your first time gigging with this equipment, they will probably be more than happy to help you get it all set up.

When I first started gigging, the sound guy would have be DI before my amp. After a year or so, he became accustomed to my rig and loved how I sounded through my amp, so he let me DI from my head with the Pre engaged. So, talking to them is definitely a plus.

 

[RoadRanger]

Clean signal to your amp and effected signal to FOH =

 

[Benny the Finger]

your sound will be "different" no matter what. The on stage amp volume is for your pleasure, the FOH is for the audience's. The sound guy will mix accordingly, or not...

I understand that aspect...but if you're hearing a clean signal thru amp(monitor) but audience is hearing an overdriven signal (from BDI to FOH) that would affect the way I play...maybe I'm out in left field here but I want to hear sound wise (tone) as close to FOH as possible...stage volume is dynamic to venue/setting

I'll add im a relatively new bassist and am still learning the in and outs of playing live so these are just my opinions based on my experiences

 

[Downunderwonder]

I understand that aspect...but if you're hearing a clean signal thru amp(monitor) but audience is hearing an overdriven signal (from BDI to FOH) that would affect the way I play...maybe I'm out in left field here

nah, right and centre field is full of cookie cutter naked bass tone, usually scooped to hell by soundguy.

I don't use extremes of EQ and only need FOH on proper large stages where stage sound isn't badly affected. I try to mic but lately I have been post EQ DI and no complaints from sound guys.

 

[hintz]

Another thing to keep in mind is many sound tech's are hesitant to go XLR outta the back of the amp(just my experience), I would bet he/she would prefer to get a line from your Sansamp instead as many XLR's from amps aren't the greatest(not all though), where tech21's are pretty standard go to DI's...

I'd say set your *amp* more flat and add slight *color*/tone from Sansamp and run affected signal into amp so you can at least get *close* to what your soundguy hears(though it wont be spot on!), I don't see a point in sending an unaffected signal to your amp and affected to FOH!!

Just go easy on the tone, the BDDI has a heavy mid scoop that may or may not be enjoyed, so running bass/treble below 10:00 and using more volume might benefit you better

 

[P A U L]

I understand that aspect...but if you're hearing a clean signal thru amp(monitor) but audience is hearing an overdriven signal (from BDI to FOH) that would affect the way I play...maybe I'm out in left field here but I want to hear sound wise (tone) as close to FOH as possible...stage volume is dynamic to venue/setting

I'll add im a relatively new bassist and am still learning the in and outs of playing live so these are just my opinions based on my experiences

I guess it depends on how "different" you use the different setups...

Do you use tons of distortion on the DI & totally clean on your amp?

 

[Benny the Finger]

I guess it depends on how "different" you use the different setups...

Do you use tons of distortion on the DI & totally clean on your amp?

I run my amp basically flat and shape tone w/ SansAmp... Nothing major...a slight scoop w/ a bit of OD, and plenty of tube emulation...
As said earlier, I'm new to the scene and am just trying to figure out the potential of my preamp and wondering if I'm using it correctly...so far I've been happy w/ stage sound and have had zero complaints or problems w/ sound guys/gals

 

[P A U L]

well, it does have an affected out ¼" too, right? go to your amp & just run out the XLR to the mixer...

Tech 21 SansAmp Bass Driver DI Features at a Glance:

• 1/4" input
• Parallel 1/4" output
• Processed 1/4" output (unbalanced)
• XLR mic level output
• Can act as a passive direct box
• Creates authentic-sounding tube tones for direct recording or live performance
• Excellent distortion stompbox
• Battery-powered, phantom-powered, or use optional power supply

use the 2 red highlighted outs as a Y connection out to your amp & the mixing console...

 

[P A U L]

just noticed I might not be clear...

guitar >> sansamp >> amp/mixer

that should do you well...

 

[Benny the Finger]

well, it does have an affected out ¼" too, right? go to your amp & just run out the XLR to the mixer...

use the 2 red highlighted outs as a Y connection out to your amp & the mixing console...

Yup for sure...I've tried a few diff ways w/ same sound guy and he noticed that the XLR out from amp has some 'noise' that can't be cut...so I usually run my amp as affected monitor and DI from SansAmp to FOH...once it's there it's outta my hands anyways

 

[P A U L]

sounds like you've got it figured out... ...

It's always good to work w/ the soundguy.

 

[Benny the Finger]

sounds like you've got it figured out... ...

It's always good to work w/ the soundguy.

First thing I do after introduction is offer to buy a drink and pick his/her brain for a bit (when possible)...cause they've seen it all, and are usually willing to share info/advice(at least out east here)

 

[Mugre]

A soundguy who drinks before mixing is not something I care to facilitate.

 

[Benny the Finger]

A soundguy who drinks before mixing is not something I care to facilitate.

I should better explain...buy them a drink for end of their nite...one in the pipes...100% agree w/ not drinking while giging and expect same from all ends involved

 

[dheafey]

So running unaffected 1/4 to your amp(used as monitor), wouldn't you be hearing a pretty different sound to what FOH is send out to audience if you are using the pre-amp and going to FOH w/ DI?

Yep, most definitely. Sending the effected signal to your backline won't give you a realistic representation of what come's out of the FOH as the Sansamp (or any preamp) will be getting mangled by the head and colored by the cabinet. If you really want what's on stage to be in the FOH, mic'ing is probably the best option.

 

[1954bassman]

Since you are a "rookie" of sorts, and this is your first encounter with a sound person, I recommend asking the sound person when you get there how they would like to get your bass signal, and go with that.

Also, unless the Sansamp is an very important to your tone, I wouldn't even use it. I have had them, and they are great, but any tone adjustments you make with it go straight to the house, limiting the sound person's ability to get the best tone for the bass in the FOH PA. Unless you send him the un-processed signal from the Sansamp, which should mirror the DI on your Fender amp.

I am confident most FOH sound persons would prefer a pre-EQ DI from a less-experienced player.

 

[Odinbass]

On my Sansamp I split it. I send the XLR out to the soundman and the 1/4" to my amp if I'm using one. For me, an amp is just a monitor and I don't want it coloring the tone coming out of the mains. Plus I've found most direct outs on bass amps suck.

 

[micque]

On saturday nite I used a similar set-up, small club with there own FOH, I'm using a Behringer BDI 21 V-Tone bass driver \ modeler DI, Ampeg B200r amp, not a big fan of heavy midrange so the low and high mids are back-off a bit, I go conservative with the drive ( 12 o'clock or so ) and full blend ( tube emulation ), I know some would say its a bit much with the B200 being a tube preamp also, but the sound tech tried both the DI balanced out and the amps balanced out and he preferred the amps post EQ out, all I heard was what was being produced by the amp, so could'nt tell you what the house heard, but every body said the bass's had a real 70's 3 piece sound, mission accomplished me thinks !

 

[BPhillips]

Great question. I have tried every combination in this scenario. First of all, I am confused by the "unaffected" 1/4 signal from the Sansamp going to your amp. I have the Programmable BDDI, and I assure you that the 1/4 out is affected. That is how people use it as an effect pedal. That is how I can use the gain and boost to change my tone in my amp. It is affected. Period. Maybe your model has an unaffected 1/4 out, but the Programmable BDDI does not. When I used my Sansamp, I would always XLR out to the FOH. I would parallel out to my stage amp. I kept relatively flat settings on my stage amp so that I knew what my affected signal from my pedal board and Sansamp sounded like. That way I new what I was sending to the FOH. All my sound guys preferred that signal vs using a mic on my amp or the built in amp DI. Heck, with good monitors or in-ears, you don't even need a stage amp for small gigs. Don't get me wrong, I love a stage amp. I will just admit that there have been times when it was totally unnecessary. Recently I shelved my Sansamp and have been using the Ampeg SCR-DI to send the signal to the FOH and sending an actual unaffected signal to my stage amp (this DI can do that - my Sansamp cannot). I know that the signal going to the FOH is usable and sounds the way I like it with any of my effects turned on. The preamp on my PF-500 is so similar to the SCR-DI that I can get the same tone but adjusted for stage dynamics and the fact that my cabinets are not the same has the house PA system. The stage sound is for me to be able to hear what the heck I'm doing and nothing more. Sometimes that requires a bit more mids and less low end than what I am sending to the house. I'm certain I totally added to the confusion. Sorry dude.

 

[Downunderwonder]

On saturday nite I used a similar set-up, small club with there own FOH, I'm using a Behringer BDI 21 V-Tone bass driver \ modeler DI, Ampeg B200r amp, not a big fan of heavy midrange so the low and high mids are back-off a bit, I go conservative with the drive ( 12 o'clock or so ) and full blend ( tube emulation ), I know some would say its a bit much with the B200 being a tube preamp also, but the sound tech tried both the DI balanced out and the amps balanced out and he preferred the amps post EQ out, all I heard was what was being produced by the amp, so could'nt tell you what the house heard, but every body said the bass's had a real 70's 3 piece sound, mission accomplished me thinks !

yay for your sound guy. The majority of the posters in this thread would have had you sounding like a bass straight into a mixer.