2-4x10 cabs or 2-1x15 cabs what's the consensus

[jungleheat]

There is no consensus, it's whatever you prefer the sound of (including the 2 different cabs together, which if you love them, there may not be any reason to change).

There are advantages and disadvantages to all 3 setups.

Let's look at a few...

Frequency response:
The 4x10 goes up to 5k whereas the 15 goes up to 2.5k. Both go down to 30Hz according to the specs. So the advantage goes to the 4x10 there (unless you like a more "vintage" sound without extended high end).

Sensitivity:
Both rated the same at 98db @1w 1m

Power handling:
15: 200w, 4x10: 400w. My instinct is that the 15 may be more conservatively rated than the 4x10, meaning with 2 15s you'd get pretty close to 400 "actual" watts. I have a feeling that even though the 2 4x10s would be rated for 800w, you'd be more likely to hit the mechanical limits of the speakers (maybe closer to 400w).

Size/Weight:
Both cabs are exactly the same size, but the 15 is 63lbs and the 410 is 88. So that's an extra 50lbs to cart around if you go with 2 410s, almost like having a whole other cab.

Price:
Looks like the 15 is about $100 cheaper than the 410. Meaning if you went with 2 15s, you'd be up about $100-200 in funds over the 4x10 ($100 for the lower cost of the unit itself, and the somewhere between $0-100 or so for the resale of a 4x10 over a 15).

So my suggestion would be to live with each cab independently for a while and get used to the sound each one makes, because with 2 of the same cab, that's basically what you'll get, only a bit louder. Put whichever cab you are using on top of the stack, to more accurately represent what you'll hear when you have 2 of the same. Then after you've tried both ways, go back to the mixed setup and see how you like that. That will allow you to make the most informed decision.

 

[4StringDave]

I like 15s, so I'll go with that!

I agree with jungleheat above - try each on its own and see which you like best, then add a second.

 

[keiththebassist]

There is no consensus, it's whatever you prefer the sound of (including the 2 different cabs together, which if you love them, there may not be any reason to change).

There are advantages and disadvantages to all 3 setups.

Let's look at a few...

Frequency response:
The 4x10 goes up to 5k whereas the 15 goes up to 2.5k. Both go down to 30Hz according to the specs. So the advantage goes to the 4x10 there (unless you like a more "vintage" sound without extended high end).

Sensitivity:
Both rated the same at 98db @1w 1m

Power handling:
15: 200w, 4x10: 400w. My instinct is that the 15 may be more conservatively rated than the 4x10, meaning with 2 15s you'd get pretty close to 400 "actual" watts. I have a feeling that even though the 2 4x10s would be rated for 800w, you'd be more likely to hit the mechanical limits of the speakers (maybe closer to 400w).

Size/Weight:
Both cabs are exactly the same size, but the 15 is 63lbs and the 410 is 88. So that's an extra 50lbs to cart around if you go with 2 410s, almost like having a whole other cab.

Price:
Looks like the 15 is about $100 cheaper than the 410. Meaning if you went with 2 15s, you'd be up about $100-200 in funds over the 4x10 ($100 for the lower cost of the unit itself, and the somewhere between $0-100 or so for the resale of a 4x10 over a 15).

So my suggestion would be to live with each cab independently for a while and get used to the sound each one makes, because with 2 of the same cab, that's basically what you'll get, only a bit louder. Put whichever cab you are using on top of the stack, to more accurately represent what you'll hear when you have 2 of the same. Then after you've tried both ways, go back to the mixed setup and see how you like that. That will allow you to make the most informed decision.

Thanks so much for the in depth response, I'm not too worried about power handling (only running a 200 watt head, though may upgrade to 350). The weight is not a huge deal too me and I'm willing to shell out a few extra bucks for what I want. The biggest thing for me is the freq range which you laid out perfectly. I'm starting to like the idea of a 2x10 so that I could use that for much smaller gigs. But I think your suggestion is best to just go with one cab for a few rehearsals to really get to know the sound of each one independently, I'm leaning towards the 10" speakers though...

Also, do you know what the deal is with the multiple jacks on the back of these cabs? Mine are not marked at all, I am doubting they are both inputs... Thanks

 

[SurferJoe46]

Both jacks (the females) are indeed inputs.

 

[keiththebassist]

Both jacks (the females) are indeed inputs.

Forgive the basic question, but why? You certainly would run two amps into one cab and risk damage right? Is it for running in stereo? and if so, why would a single speaker cabinet also have two?

Thanks!

 

[SurferJoe46]

It is there for a daisy chain so you can add another cabinet - NOT another amplifier - to the cab for multiple cabs.

You may have the option of plugging two cables into the back of the amplifier or just one cable out to one cab and then jump to another cab.

They TYPICALLY are parallel inputs on the cabs and parallel outputs on the amp.

 

[Dustin Teel]

It seems like a 200 watt SS head would clip trying to push eight 10s at gig volume.

Regardless, I fully support the 2 1x15 idea over 2 4x10. A "sqaure" of drivers, such as 4x10, 8x10, etc. is a fundamentally flawed design. Having drivers side by side in the same enclosure causes unpredictable frequency cancellation.

A vertical stack of two 1x15s will have more accurate midrange dispersion. Your sound will be more uniform regardless of where audience members are standing.

 

[sanderic]

Hartke uses parallel inputs on the back of their speaker cabinets.
plug your amps output into either jack, then run another speaker cable out of the second jack into the input of another speaker jack.
Just keep in mind, they are wired parallel, not series, so 2 8 ohm cabinets will equal a 4 ohm load.
Many people believe these speakers are series wired ( I thought this for a long time, lucky I didnt blow any amp heads).

 

[fingerbun]

Thanks so much for the in depth response, I'm not too worried about power handling (only running a 200 watt head, though may upgrade to 350). The weight is not a huge deal too me and I'm willing to shell out a few extra bucks for what I want. The biggest thing for me is the freq range which you laid out perfectly. I'm starting to like the idea of a 2x10 so that I could use that for much smaller gigs. But I think your suggestion is best to just go with one cab for a few rehearsals to really get to know the sound of each one independently, I'm leaning towards the 10" speakers though...

Also, do you know what the deal is with the multiple jacks on the back of these cabs? Mine are not marked at all, I am doubting they are both inputs... Thanks

I've got the 210. It only goes down to 50hz. Not sure why the the 410 goes down to 30. On it's own it can sound a bit thin.

Power handling, I would still factor in greater power handling even though your current head is small. I'm going to bet that at some stage you will upgrade.

 

[Joe Louvar]

I like 15s, so I'll go with that!

I agree with jungleheat above - try each on its own and see which you like best, then add a second.

+1
I like 15s too - and JH's post is good.

 

[SurferJoe46]

I've got the 210. It only goes down to 50hz. Not sure why the the 410 goes down to 30. On it's own it can sound a bit thin.

That's by design (or cheapness) by the manufacturer. There is no corollary to a 10 or a 12 or a 15 going any deeper than any other driver.

You don't get to 30 Hz on a 4-string anyway. Not unless you down tune.

32.70Hz =Lowest C on a standard 88-key piano.

 

[keiththebassist]

okay, I guess I'm just confused as to why its called an input if it is sending the signal to another cab, doesn't that technically make it an output? Right now I have two outputs in the back of my hartke ha220, I am running one cable to each cab separately (not daisy chained). Am I right in saying that in saying that if I daisy chain them it will essentially reduce resistance (ohms) and increase my volume output?

Thanks again for your patience with the basic set up questions. I'm just now getting into the more technical side of amplification

 

[Russell L]

I like the idea of two 115s because it's so much more portable. If I need to be any louder (and biger-sounding) than that I'll go through the PA for sure, if it's available. If it's not available, oh well, I'm trying to play gigs that aren't stupid loud anyway.

 

[smeet]

Input/output all the same with the parallel inputs. Plug the amp into either one, plug the other one into your other cab, it's as if both cabinets are directly connected to your amp.

Yes, two 8 ohm cabinets connected in parallel will show the amp a 4 ohm load. It will be louder, but most of that loudness change comes from the fact that you have twice the speaker surface area, just a little but comes from the amp putting out more power. Either way, it will be much louder.

Oh yes, and to the original question, you can't compare all 410s to all 115s. I'm not familiar with the Hartkes, but just listen to them and decide for yourself. I've always liked 410s, but lately I've played through some 215s and really liked them. A couple of times, Crate 215's at some rehearsal spaces were actually quite impressive, considering I was all set to be snotty and superior about how crappy I thought they would sound.

I'm about to start building a fEARful 15/6/1, which is kind of a 115 (with a midrange driver and tweeter). I understand that THIS particular cabinet will outperform any 410 and also beam much less. Just goes to show you that you can't form an opinion just based on driver size.

 

[fingerbun]

That's by design (or cheapness) by the manufacturer. There is no corollary to a 10 or a 1`2 or a 15 going any deeper than any other driver.

You don't get to 30 Hz on a 4-string anyway. Not unless you down tune.

Sure, though it puzzles me why they did it. Limit of smaller box size I guess. I assume the 210 has the same drivers as the 410.

I actually like the sound I get combining it with an old EV 15. The two sounds complement each other. Though I know why this is bad design and I do intend to replace both cabs with matching ones in the near future.

Bottom E is around 40hz I think but lots of people use cabs that only go down to 50hz.

 

[keiththebassist]

Also, I know this is considered a small head (200 watts, and btw it has a dual ss and tube preamps), but it must be on steroids or something because I play with a loud drummer and a guitarist using a Marshall JCM 2000 and a 1960a cab that is extremely loud. Whether at rehearsal or playing a small-midsize venue (like 200-300 people), I have never needed to turn the damn thing up past about 2, in terms of volume, it definitely owns. Scared to hear what would happen if I took it down to 4 ohms...

 

[kraigo]

A 400 watt head is (in theory) only 3 dB louder. 3 dB is usually described as "one notch louder" or "about the smallest sound increment you can hear". So don't sweat it too much. At this point I think you're right to worry about upgrading your cabs at this point and possibly your amp down the line.

I'm a big fan of 2x12's because they are a nice compromise of moving some air without taking a big box to do it. But that's just my opinion and outside the parameters you've set.

In terms of moving air the two 4x10's would win. As far as schlepability, the two 1x15's would win. In my case I'm more concerned with schlepability. I think two 4x10's would be overkill, but again that's just me and my situation.

In your situation I'd consider a fEarFul 15+6 and a powerful micro but I don't know what kind of music you're playing. The Genz and GK micro heads are pretty cheap though. It all depends on what you value.

 

[christw]

Sure, though it puzzles me why they did it. Limit of smaller box size I guess. I assume the 210 has the same drivers as the 410.

I actually like the sound I get combining it with an old EV 15. The two sounds complement each other. Though I know why this is bad design and I do intend to replace both cabs with matching ones in the near future.

Bottom E is around 40hz I think but lots of people use cabs that only go down to 50hz.

I doubt these cabs produce any reasonably loud fundamental down at 30 hz anyways. It's inflated marketing specs and probably the -12db rolloff point for the cab since they don't give you that +/-3 or +/-6 db spec. If you're running a 200w SS head, it won't be able to reproduce frequencies that low with any appreciable volume in a band anyways. It's like expecting a V8 to have all of it's torque at 500 RPM. Sorry, but at that point it's ready to stall out.

Also, I know this is considered a small head (200 watts, and btw it has a dual ss and tube preamps), but it must be on steroids or something because I play with a loud drummer and a guitarist using a Marshall JCM 2000 and a 1960a cab that is extremely loud. Whether at rehearsal or playing a small-midsize venue (like 200-300 people), I have never needed to turn the damn thing up past about 2, in terms of volume, it definitely owns. Scared to hear what would happen if I took it down to 4 ohms...

As far as you being loud with the 200w head, it's all in the frequencies you're trying to reproduce. I focus on low mid presence and efficient speakers a lot more than booming deep bass and it makes my 30-120w tube amps sound huuuge.

By the way, amps volume scales are not linear and the numeric value is not really a representation of the power you're using. My SVT-II would give up between 3 and 7 on the knob, depending on the bass and cab I used for example.

 

[grendle]

okay, I guess I'm just confused as to why its called an input if it is sending the signal to another cab, doesn't that technically make it an output? Right now I have two outputs in the back of my hartke ha220, I am running one cable to each cab separately (not daisy chained). Am I right in saying that in saying that if I daisy chain them it will essentially reduce resistance (ohms) and increase my volume output?

Thanks again for your patience with the basic set up questions. I'm just now getting into the more technical side of amplification

All of the HA hartke's are way loud for the wattage rating. Kind of a cool thing, unless you let someone borrow your head. " hey its only 200 watts, I'm gonna need to crank it! Pop go the speakers. Never had my 3500 over 4 on the master, and the svt's 8 10's were jumpin.

The XL cabs are far different than their Transporter brothers. The XL's actually put out some good low end. I personally don't care for the aluminum cones (be careful in the winter! Let the cab warm up) but they have the hartke tone.

 

[keiththebassist]

Hartke uses parallel inputs on the back of their speaker cabinets.
plug your amps output into either jack, then run another speaker cable out of the second jack into the input of another speaker jack.
Just keep in mind, they are wired parallel, not series, so 2 8 ohm cabinets will equal a 4 ohm load.
Many people believe these speakers are series wired ( I thought this for a long time, lucky I didnt blow any amp heads).

Thanks for your patience, I'm sure this topic/question has been done to death. So am I right in thinking that there is no danger in reducing the ohm load to the amp? If I daisy chain two 8 ohm cabs giving me 4 ohms that's no problem right? Only danger is when the ohm load from the cabs are increased right?