2 Types of bassists it seems....

[Sundogue]

The drone metal band Sunn O))) is always this loud when they play. So loud I couldn't hear myself talk. When I'd close my eyes I could feel my eyeballs vibrating against my eyelids. Whole room vibrating for an hour and a half or so. To me, volumes that intense, coupled with the right kind of music of course, is a very soothing thing IMO. You're completely immersed in the music because all you can hear is the music, not some jackass next to you trying to talk throughout the show.

I imagine it to be akin to ritualistic tribal drumming and chanting where the rhythm is so loud and throbbing that it actually induces hypnotic trances.

Which come to think of it, is part of why I love playing bass...being in a low end trance with the drums.

While I certainly do not want to play as loud as some do, I can really dig the feel and intensity of that kind of music.

 

[Metal Matt]

I imagine it to be akin to ritualistic tribal drumming and chanting where the rhythm is so loud and throbbing that it actually induces hypnotic trances.

Which come to think of it, is part of why I love playing bass...being in a low end trance with the drums.

While I certainly do not want to play as loud as some do, I can really dig the feel and intensity of that kind of music.

Exactly! It's not something that's possible without massive volume. Way louder than what most people on here would consider "too loud". Certainly not for everyone, but it's always nice to know there's people here that at least "get it" even if they aren't into the genre(s).

I wouldn't recommend a rig as large/loud as mine for a country band or anything like that. ha

 

[blikeng]

So many people here say they aren't "comfortable" without the big rig behind their back, and it makes me wonder: When you have a gig, do you play for your own sake, or for the sake of the people who are there to here you? Without them there is no gig.

I don't know if I'm right or wrong now, but sometimes it seems to me it matters more for people to have a good sound on the stage rather than a good sound going out to the listeners.

 

[JimmyM]

So many people here say they aren't "comfortable" without the big rig behind their back, and it makes me wonder: When you have a gig, do you play for your own sake, or for the sake of the people who are there to here you? Without them there is no gig.

I don't know if I'm right or wrong now, but sometimes it seems to me it matters more for people to have a good sound on the stage rather than a good sound going out to the listeners.

why should i have to choose? it's entirely possible to have both. many many many bands do it.

 

[Metal Matt]

why should i have to choose? it's entirely possible to have both. many many many bands do it.

+1

 

[Sundogue]

Exactly! It's not something that's possible without massive volume. Way louder than what most people on here would consider "too loud". Certainly not for everyone, but it's always nice to know there's people here that at least "get it" even if they aren't into the genre(s).

I wouldn't recommend a rig as large/loud as mine for a country band or anything like that. ha

Yes, exactly. And to clarify, the point I brought up in this thread wasn't in disagreement of such incredible volume, but rather using old, heavy cabs to get there.

I could build the kind of trance inducing rig you desire for this kind of music, yet still cut the weight in half (all while maintaining the "look" of a large rig). I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be as loud or louder than you currently are without having to haul such heavy gear? I know many don't mind hauling the heavy stuff, but I'm positive everyone would mind it even less if it were lighter and still got the sound threshold everyone desires.

So while I don't particularly enjoy the genre of music you do, I can certainly appreciate the hypnotic qualities of such low end force being applied and what it takes to get there.

 

[JimmyM]

there's also the pawnshop aesthetic at play with doom. looks count, as they should. however, i do think that if these doomers want to erupt spleens, these high efficiency cabs are a great way to go. they just need cloth grills and some "relic'ing."

 

[Metal Matt]

Yes, exactly. And to clarify, the point I brought up in this thread wasn't in disagreement of such incredible volume, but rather using old, heavy cabs to get there.

I could build the kind of trance inducing rig you desire for this kind of music, yet still cut the weight in half (all while maintaining the "look" of a large rig). I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be as loud or louder than you currently are without having to haul such heavy gear? I know many don't mind hauling the heavy stuff, but I'm positive everyone would mind it even less if it were lighter and still got the sound threshold everyone desires.

So while I don't particularly enjoy the genre of music you do, I can certainly appreciate the hypnotic qualities of such low end force being applied and what it takes to get there.

Well, as you mentioned before.. all this old heavy gear is very cheap usually. Most of the lightweight cabs and amps that are popular right now, sound sterile IMO. I know that's not what you're talking about, but that's part of the reason why I built my rig from pawnshop/ebay/and craigslist finds, and not Guitar Centers lame offerings. I could care less about efficiency of modern cabs when they don't get me the tone I'm looking for.

As far as building a cab goes I understand I could have a cab the same dimensions as my Acoustic 406, with thinner wood, lighter speakers and have the same tone from it. If I had the money or skills for that, sure I'd go for it. But I don't, and it's far easier to find old used cabs for cheap. I know I couldn't build a matching 406 for the 120 bucks I paid for mine. What's wrong with mine? Almost all the tolex is gone. Big deal.

And on top of all that, I simply have no problem moving this stuff around so the weight is just a non-issue to me. I guess I'm a "why fix it if it isn't broken" type of person.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

So many people here say they aren't "comfortable" without the big rig behind their back, and it makes me wonder: When you have a gig, do you play for your own sake, or for the sake of the people who are there to here you? Without them there is no gig.

I don't know if I'm right or wrong now, but sometimes it seems to me it matters more for people to have a good sound on the stage rather than a good sound going out to the listeners.

I play for my own sake, duh. And I'm more than happy to play to empty rooms or wide open empty spaces if no one else wants to hear it.

 

[JimmyM]

hey, i play for money, and other than having to adjust my volume way down on bowzer gigs, i'm completely happy with both my amp sound and my foh sound when we have a soundman who knows how to mix. ain't now law against having both.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

Yeah, I just wanted to get snarky and impertinent. I'm missing out on a kickass rock show tonight (two bands, two dollars, two dollar drafts?!) because I can't find anyone to go with.

 

[Korladis]

So many people here say they aren't "comfortable" without the big rig behind their back, and it makes me wonder: When you have a gig, do you play for your own sake, or for the sake of the people who are there to here you? Without them there is no gig.

I don't know if I'm right or wrong now, but sometimes it seems to me it matters more for people to have a good sound on the stage rather than a good sound going out to the listeners.

If I'm not enjoying playing, why am I doing it?

 

[Korladis]

That's what it's all about.

What bands did you see?

Shrinebuilder, Harvestman (which isn't really doom metal so much as down-tempo and ambient), A Storm of Light and Laudanum.

 

[Korladis]

I don't like being subtle either, musically that is. For me the beauty of using the absolute smallest cab I can build (that still kills) is that it leaves people scratching their heads wondering where all that bass is coming from.

I've played some multiple band gigs where there are a few different bass rigs onstage and I've worked it out to have my rig onstage. Some guys have these monsters that the soundguy won't allow onstage (because of limited space mainly). When it's their turn to play they have such a limited choice between a little combo or maybe one other smaller rig besides mine. I tell them to try mine out. Then they come up to me later and ask just how in the hell such a small cab could get so loud...and where can they get one like that.

For some, music is a visual medium. A lot of guys (not all, but especially younger players) tend to gravitate towards rigs that look impressive regardless of how they actually sound and are more inclined to just want large, loud rigs based on looks alone. I've seen quite a few young bass players in my time that have these behemoth rigs that can get loud but sound like crap (either because they don't know how to make them sound good, or they really are rigs that sound that way no matter what). Impressive perhaps to other younger players who just don't "get it" yet, and I understand where they are coming from.

As one gets older, hopefully one gets wiser and realizes that to get the volume and tone desired does not mean one must have the most impressive display. And ultimately once you start playing, nobody cares what your rig looks like anyway. It might be impressive to walk into a club and see a wall of cabinets and think "these guys must be very loud" and then of course they are. But I think it more impressive to walk in, see very little in the way of gear and then the band just blows everybody away.

Because of the physical limitations of the human ear, music that is deafeningly loud only causes ear fatigue anyway and the ability to hear shuts itself down. That is why as the night progresses musicians tend to keep turning up to compensate. And despite maintaining that high volume throughout the night, it just becomes a mash of audible garbage that eventually will cause hearing loss. You may wear earplugs but your audience typically doesn't. And that's just sad.

My 17 year old son has already caused hearing damage from high volume music through earbuds and headphones. He says he doesn't care and I'm sure right now he doesn't. But he's already lost quite a bit of hearing and someday he will regret it. Ah, wisdom is lost on youth.

Ear plugs are my friends.

I think it's the feel that high volume produces more than the aural sense of it that I really like.

 

[JimmyM]

kids are always going to want loud music. i remember being 17 and seeing van halen. they made my brain hurt with volume. but it was good so i didn't wear earplugs. i still have most of my hearing, too. lost a little bit of high end but otherwise pretty good.

i would hate to see your fresh little ears get damaged, though, so be sensible about it. that's one thing i did that was smart and saved my hearing, i think...i always let the pa do the heavy lifting and i just tried to get a mix with everyone rather than turn up as loud as i could.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Shrinebuilder, Harvestman (which isn't really doom metal so much as down-tempo and ambient), A Storm of Light and Laudanum.

I know the dudes from Laudanum (they live a few blocks from here) and some of the guys in Neurosis/Sleep etc that spawned Shrinebuilder. I was supposed to go to that show in Oakland but was being grumpy. I guess I am kind of in that scene of playing way too loud. I have tamed it down over the past few years and just try to get a really ferocious bass sound. But heck if I wasnt talking to Craig Meuller about making my amp go louder a couple of days ago. It's in the shop getting fitted for bigger tubes and I am picking his brain about dropping a different transformer in there.

As far as more efficient modern cabs go, they just dont do the trick. They are too damned flat frequency wise, and linear as far as dynamics go. To me part of sounding loud is the speaker cabinet getting non-linear. Port "chuffing" is awesome for this. I have even modded cabinets just to make them "whump" better.
Thats kind of why I am skeptical of light cabinets. I have had massive cabinets that DO NOT BUDGE when you turn the amp up all the way. Loud enough that the amp will rattle off of a lighter cabinet. (Seriously, done that, busted my Bass 400's treble knob!).
The Acoustic 406 is one of those. I wish I still had mine! Loud as hell, heavy as hell. Force of nature cabinet. A cabinet that was that loud and only wieghed 70lbs I would imagine not coupling as well with the floor.

 

[Korladis]

Laudanum was actually the loudest, I think. It was great to revel in the obscene volume.

Shrinebuilder was, of course, amazing. Al is an incredible bassist. Wino was having problems with his Sunn, though.

As I've said, when I'm older maybe I'll invest in some lighter cabs. For now, with them sounding good and being cheap, heavy cabs aren't a big deal to haul.

 

[blikeng]

why should i have to choose? it's entirely possible to have both. many many many bands do it.

I never said you have to choose. Good for you if you have a awesome soundman who knows his job, I want that myself!

If I'm not enjoying playing, why am I doing it?

Good for you if you're doing it just to satisfy yourself, but a lot of people make a living of it without a awesome soundman, and if they'd want more gigs they simply can't do that. I do enjoy it, but for me it's more important that the folks who are there to listen enjoys it.

I play for my own sake, duh. And I'm more than happy to play to empty rooms or wide open empty spaces if no one else wants to hear it.

Again, for very many people a gig without people means no more gigs.

 

[JimmyM]

Good for you if you're doing it just to satisfy yourself, but a lot of people make a living of it without a awesome soundman, and if they'd want more gigs they simply can't do that. I do enjoy it, but for me it's more important that the folks who are there to listen enjoys it.

and i'll say again that there's no reason you can't enjoy it yourself just as much. that doesn't mean you have to blast your amp and fill the room with puke inducing bass. that means you have a rig that sounds good to you as well as putting out a good sound in the house.

 

[Korladis]

Good for you if you're doing it just to satisfy yourself, but a lot of people make a living of it without a awesome soundman, and if they'd want more gigs they simply can't do that. I do enjoy it, but for me it's more important that the folks who are there to listen enjoys it.

I play bass primarily because I enjoy it. I would like others to like my playing as well, but it's more of a passion than a job for me, though I do like being paid. If someone was doing it primarily as just a way of making money, I'd question their judgment, as there are far better ways to get paid.

Furthermore, if I'm not enjoying my performance, how can I expect anyone else to?