2 Types of bassists it seems....

[Sundogue]

Sundogue, I use 3/4" plywood so I don't need all that extra bracing. Dadoes and rabbets are fine and require little extra set-up. Carpentry is carpentry, whether you are building a bass cabinet or cedar chest. 1/2" plywood is less sturdy than 3/4". And I want the speaker to do the rockin' not the cabinet.
As I said, use the proper tool for the job.

1/2", properly braced, has proven to be solid for bass cabs. The bracing adds far less weight than the 3/4" does for a more solid cabinet. I have yet to have a 1/2" ply cabinet do any rocking, vibrating or moving.

Don't believe me? Let's build a bridge across the street out of plywood. You span the whole thing with a layer of 3/4" plywood and I'll span it with 1/2" ply with bracing. Mine will be lighter, yet stronger. I once built a bridge in an engineering class out of nothing but 1/4" balsa sticks that held five 200 lb. people walking on it (and I still lost the competition to someone who built one that held 8 people!). My brother is working on using 1/8" thick panels with a honeycomb design for even lighter panels and one TB'er here even made a fiberglass cab.

Yes, carpentry is carpentry, but carpentry is not engineering. And there is nothing wrong with using 3/4" ply at all...except weight. It's strong and sturdy, no doubt. It's just heavy. At least it isn't MDF.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

If you doubt that heavy cabs make a difference check out the old mesa boogie roadready shelf port cabs as compared to the Diesel versions. Same exact design. Same driver, but I swear the road ready ones just thunder more. I Dont know what they are made out of but they are significantly heavier than the diesel counterparts, and that weight cant all be the aluminum hardware!

Fibreglas cabs are totally viable. Bullfrog I believe made some, as well as possibly bagend. I have jammed through some unbadged TL606 style cabs(think they were Bullfrogs) that sounded great. Weighed about 20lbs more than the driver by itself.

 

[Sundogue]

If you doubt that heavy cabs make a difference check out the old mesa boogie roadready shelf port cabs as compared to the Diesel versions. Same exact design. Same driver, but I swear the road ready ones just thunder more. I Dont know what they are made out of but they are significantly heavier than the diesel counterparts, and that weight cant all be the aluminum hardware!

Fibreglas cabs are totally viable. Bullfrog I believe made some, as well as possibly bagend. I have jammed through some unbadged TL606 style cabs(think they were Bullfrogs) that sounded great. Weighed about 20lbs more than the driver by itself.

Do you know for a fact that the speakers have the exact same T/S parameters, and the cabs have the exact same internal volume and the cabs are tuned identically?

If that is the case, then they should sound the same regardless of the cab material used. All it would take to change the sound is any driver spec to be slightly different, or the tuning to be different, or even a slightly different internal cab volume.

I don't really care what anyone's cabs are made out of. They can be MDF, 1/2" or 3/4" ply, or even 12" thick concrete. If everything else is the same (exactly) then there should be no difference.

I've built new cabs out of lighter material to be exact replicas of the heavier cabs they replaced (using the same drivers) and they still sounded the same. They were just lighter.

So, I not only doubt it, I don't believe it at all. And why would Mesa Boogie come out with new cabs that aren't any different than before? Just to waste money on designs and the manufacturing process? And if the speakers and cabs aren't any different, then really why do it at all?

 

[Korladis]

I know where you are coming from and I can appreciate that. I put wheels on even my smaller cabs because it's easier just to roll them in.

I don't like small cabs either (at least on their own), like say 110's, 210's or 112's for example. If I go the 210 route, I'd pair it with another 210 or 115. I've had lightweight 115's but used a pair of them.

I currently built a 215 cab that is 22X25X17 and it weighs only 38 lbs. It took me a total of two weeks to build, spending at most a 1/2 hour a day on it. I could easily have built it over a weekend. It is loud enough to drown everyone in the band out, though I never play it that loud.

And you could build a 4X15 that would make everyone in the band deaf (literally, through constant use cranked) and it would be so much lighter than any of these old cabs of yore. Using 1/2" ply and loaded with Eminence 3015's, that's only 4 lbs. total of speakers and maybe a 70 lb. cab total on casters (or split it up into two even lighter 2X15's), yet you'd have an 1800 watt rig that's easier to haul around and would still blow away the old heavy cabs easily.

Someday when you have the time, space and money to try a build, build a big one if you want, but try to build a light one. You'll be amazed at how loud you can get, how good it can sound and you may never go back to a heavy cab again (especially if you're older by then).

Most of the older guys on here (myself included) have just grown tired of heavy gear. We play a variety of genres in different situations, so not everyone is going to want it loud, and some can get by with real tiny rigs. But for those that like it loud, you can have that and still use lighter cabs. Some guys (like JimmyM) know they can go lighter but don't care to (for a legitimate reason), and that's cool too. I just want my fellow bass players to know they do actually have choices and going light doesn't have to mean wimpy sound or low volume.

I'd due the one big huge cab, not two smaller ones. Just because I'm not subtle at all.

And while I wouldn't necessarily deafen everybody in the band... having the ability to do so would be nice.

In the meantime, being a younger guy, hauling heavy gear isn't a big deal if it sounds good. And I actually prefer my basses to be heavy. The weight is reassuring.

Annoyingly, my Ampeg 15" cab is from the year before they started putting wheels on them. Kinda lame. I don't mind carrying it, but if it had wheels, I could move both cabs at once.

It took me a ton of time to build my head cab, partly due to having relatively primitive tools available (the first board of plywood was cut using a handsaw) and that's still not done (have to put the new handles on it... before I was using metal door handles). I also have to decide weather to try and tolex it or just paint it/varnish it, and put the grill on the back.

 

[Sundogue]

I'd due the one big huge cab, not two smaller ones. Just because I'm not subtle at all.

And while I wouldn't necessarily deafen everybody in the band... having the ability to do so would be nice.

In the meantime, being a younger guy, hauling heavy gear isn't a big deal if it sounds good. And I actually prefer my basses to be heavy. The weight is reassuring.

Annoyingly, my Ampeg 15" cab is from the year before they started putting wheels on them. Kinda lame. I don't mind carrying it, but if it had wheels, I could move both cabs at once.

It took me a ton of time to build my head cab, partly due to having relatively primitive tools available (the first board of plywood was cut using a handsaw) and that's still not done (have to put the new handles on it... before I was using metal door handles). I also have to decide weather to try and tolex it or just paint it/varnish it, and put the grill on the back.

When I was younger I didn't mind the weight, but being 49 I had no choice with lighter gear back then...it was all heavy. I also wanted to be as loud as possible.

Now that I'm older, I still like being loud but I find it fun to stump bass players wondering just how in the hell I could get so loud with my little cab. And I can carry it with one hand if need be. These days large cabs are unimpressive to me. What is impressive is a cab with the greatest size to volume ratio. My little mini 215 kicks some serious butt, but if someone could come up with a way to kick ass with a 110 I'd be all over it. God, I love technology!

It is fun building cabs, for me anyway. If you have the place, time and desire you can do a lot better than most of what is available commercially.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

http://cgi.ebay.com/BLR-KFZ20001-21-SCOOP-BASS-SPEAKER-HORN-LOADED-/140294302699
thats probably worth hauling around.

 

[Sundogue]

http://cgi.ebay.com/BLR-KFZ20001-21-SCOOP-BASS-SPEAKER-HORN-LOADED-/140294302699
thats probably worth hauling around.

As a PA sub, yeah I think so too.

Though I'd really like to see more specs on that.

 

[Radek]

I like practical things and something like 8x10 "refrigerator" is far from such. I hate to haul gear - why to bother with clumsiness? Don't modern compacts 2x12 (or even 2x15) are loud enough with superb sound?

The question is why 8x10 have to be made in the first place? Isn't that because at the beginning drivers weren't efficient enough, amps were relatively weak and there wasn't other choice to get acceptable results?

In my band we have to use earplugs to not get deaf (Shuttle6.0 into Neox212T + 100W tube guitar amp). Assuming there is a PA support it's hard to see a need to anything bigger (aside some sentiments or the "band image thing").

 

[JimmyM]

yes, that was the original concept...to have a very loud cab utilizing the drivers of the day, which were not nearly as stout as the speakers we have today. and yet, even as driver and cab design got better and developed into an exact science, the 810 or two 410 rig is still greatly favored by a lot of bassists, even though there's "better." why? because they sound massive and great.

so that's why they have to be made in the first place. sorry they shake your world, but i'm not going to stop using mine.

 

[JAGGL3S]

there are very few speakers/cabs currently produced that will do both loud and low. it's pretty much one or the other...
I happen to have both however....

MUHUWAHAHAHA

HOLY CRAP!!!!!

 

[higgi]

I gig mostly with a mini rig, a di. But my other rig is 300 watts into an 810. I wanna join the middle crowd also with a fearful 15/6. When I go direct the subs give enough low end for on stage and a floor wedge gives midrange.

 

[Korladis]

When I was younger I didn't mind the weight, but being 49 I had no choice with lighter gear back then...it was all heavy. I also wanted to be as loud as possible.

Now that I'm older, I still like being loud but I find it fun to stump bass players wondering just how in the hell I could get so loud with my little cab. And I can carry it with one hand if need be. These days large cabs are unimpressive to me. What is impressive is a cab with the greatest size to volume ratio. My little mini 215 kicks some serious butt, but if someone could come up with a way to kick ass with a 110 I'd be all over it. God, I love technology!

It is fun building cabs, for me anyway. If you have the place, time and desire you can do a lot better than most of what is available commercially.

Yeah, I don't like being subtle. Maybe my tastes will change. If I could build cabs I'd definitely construct some ridiculous monstrosity.

Not that I'd actually get to use the maximum amount of wattage such a thing could take, but it would be nice to have the ability to wreak sonic devastation on such a scale.

 

[Sundogue]

Yeah, I don't like being subtle. Maybe my tastes will change. If I could build cabs I'd definitely construct some ridiculous monstrosity.

Not that I'd actually get to use the maximum amount of wattage such a thing could take, but it would be nice to have the ability to wreak sonic devastation on such a scale.

I don't like being subtle either, musically that is. For me the beauty of using the absolute smallest cab I can build (that still kills) is that it leaves people scratching their heads wondering where all that bass is coming from.

I've played some multiple band gigs where there are a few different bass rigs onstage and I've worked it out to have my rig onstage. Some guys have these monsters that the soundguy won't allow onstage (because of limited space mainly). When it's their turn to play they have such a limited choice between a little combo or maybe one other smaller rig besides mine. I tell them to try mine out. Then they come up to me later and ask just how in the hell such a small cab could get so loud...and where can they get one like that.

For some, music is a visual medium. A lot of guys (not all, but especially younger players) tend to gravitate towards rigs that look impressive regardless of how they actually sound and are more inclined to just want large, loud rigs based on looks alone. I've seen quite a few young bass players in my time that have these behemoth rigs that can get loud but sound like crap (either because they don't know how to make them sound good, or they really are rigs that sound that way no matter what). Impressive perhaps to other younger players who just don't "get it" yet, and I understand where they are coming from.

As one gets older, hopefully one gets wiser and realizes that to get the volume and tone desired does not mean one must have the most impressive display. And ultimately once you start playing, nobody cares what your rig looks like anyway. It might be impressive to walk into a club and see a wall of cabinets and think "these guys must be very loud" and then of course they are. But I think it more impressive to walk in, see very little in the way of gear and then the band just blows everybody away.

Because of the physical limitations of the human ear, music that is deafeningly loud only causes ear fatigue anyway and the ability to hear shuts itself down. That is why as the night progresses musicians tend to keep turning up to compensate. And despite maintaining that high volume throughout the night, it just becomes a mash of audible garbage that eventually will cause hearing loss. You may wear earplugs but your audience typically doesn't. And that's just sad.

My 17 year old son has already caused hearing damage from high volume music through earbuds and headphones. He says he doesn't care and I'm sure right now he doesn't. But he's already lost quite a bit of hearing and someday he will regret it. Ah, wisdom is lost on youth.

 

[Bassist4Life]

nope its a aria pro-II xrb that my cousen painted for me

its a awesome bass

super thin neck, plays great, sounds completly insane and lets be honist... the colour is amazing

noway! i had the same bass and i also did something drastic to the finish. that was was indestructible and it sounded great! i ripped out the active electronics. even after years of horrific abuse, that bass still plays an sounds amazing. i gave it to a friend to use in his workshop and i get to play it every so often. cool...

 

[Korladis]

I was at a doom metal show last night. Almost everybody was wearing ear plugs. I was glad I had mine... the first band was so loud and low that I felt like my organs had been rearranged.

 

[Metal Matt]

I was at a doom metal show last night. Almost everybody was wearing ear plugs. I was glad I had mine... the first band was so loud and low that I felt like my organs had been rearranged.

That's what it's all about.

What bands did you see?

 

[Lammchop93]

I can see the use of a small rig, but I just simply can't play without a full stack or more behind pushing air all around. I'm just not comfortable playing with it.

 

[wideyes]

I went to a Sound Tribe Sector 9 show in San Francisco a few new years ago. They're an electric/electronic rock jam band, meaning they do synth as well as electric bass guitar. The bass sound was huge, and the PA at the Bill Graham theater was putting out some incredible bass waves. I actually had to leave in the middle of the second set because my body was hurting (needless to say, my -40db earplugs were jammed halfway into my brain). I felt my teeth rattling together, and when I tried to speak to my friends, it sounded like talking through a fan - the bass frequencies were chopping my words up as they left my mouth.



Some apparently like this. Not for me. Why turn up if everyone's wearing earplugs?

 

[sirmike75]

Im in a all original rock band..even at festivals i have gone direct into the pa...im curious were u are playing that would require all that gear...we also play at. The longest our entire cd .10 songs.a hour..i couldnt imagine lugging all that around

 

[Metal Matt]

I felt my teeth rattling together, and when I tried to speak to my friends, it sounded like talking through a fan - the bass frequencies were chopping my words up as they left my mouth.



Some apparently like this. Not for me. Why turn up if everyone's wearing earplugs?

The drone metal band Sunn O))) is always this loud when they play. So loud I couldn't hear myself talk. When I'd close my eyes I could feel my eyeballs vibrating against my eyelids. Whole room vibrating for an hour and a half or so. To me, volumes that intense, coupled with the right kind of music of course, is a very soothing thing IMO. You're completely immersed in the music because all you can hear is the music, not some jackass next to you trying to talk throughout the show.