2 Types of bassists it seems....

[jokerjkny]

Let me tell you what the "special vibe" to a wall of speakers is to the average gigging around town bass player. It's called sitting on top of your rig because there's no stage space.

that actually happened to me last week because of a really odd stage. but unless you have line of sight issues or a really odd stage, an svt really doesn't take up any more real estate on the stage than a 410.

It's called taking an hour to pack up after a gig in the wee hours of the morning.

20 minutes, 30 tops if my car is parked far away, and that's with having to pack up an upright bass as well. last week i did a gig where i was packed and on the road 15 minutes after the gig.

It's called fighting with the sound guy about your volume level for every gig.

never happens. i am a professional.

It's called having him turn you down in the house and your monitor.

never happens. big is not always about volume. it's about tone. my amp has a volume knob. besides, i hate bass in monitors, and if i ever hear it, i have them pull it out.

And it's called being ignored and unheard if one happens to be a bass player in a rock band...Unless you're on that magical short list of rock bass players anyone knows or cares about.

trust me, nobody ignores me. of course, it helps that i sing about 1/3 of the songs

Big speakers do not equal big cajones. And drunk head bangers or drunk clubbers or drunk jazz snobs don't care about your rig. They really don't.

i really don't care, to be quite honest. i bring what i bring for me and my guys alone, and if anyone else enjoys it, they're welcome to come along for the ride. but if they don't, that's ok, too, because i'm enjoying it quite well all by myself, and that translates to the audience as me having more fun, which makes for a much better show.

If you're lucky that one squirrely dude in the corner who's not been dancing but eyeballing you all night, may come up and gush over your speakers, because he's a bass player. But then he's usually mohlered up, too.

see my last point.

listen, at this point in my life i have only a few good svt years left. i wasted 10 of the last 11 years without one, and now i have a chance to get some more good svt time in, especially knowing that i own the very best svt rig ever made. it makes me feel good, it makes the band feel good, and because we all feel good, the audience feels good when we play. it's what you call a chain reaction.

i did the downsizing thing a couple years ago, and while it was plenty, i never got the level of satisfaction i get when playing my svt or my b-15 with two cabs. so i only downsize when absolutely necessary now.

not sure why it concerns you so much if others use a big rig since i really couldn't care less what you use, but since you put up your argument against it, i put up mine in favor. try not to judge what everyone else should do by your situation.

should be a sticky... cause i totally agree.

 

[Korladis]

Understandable. You do know that it's the speakers and cab design that gives you that sound, right? You do know that you can use newer, lighter speakers and design a cab to sound any way you want it to sound, including that old vintage sound, right?

You also know that not all plywood is 3/4" thick and that MDF is actually 10 lbs. of glue mixed with 3 lbs. of sawdust per square inch, right?



Commercial manufacturers will love you for that recommendation. A properly braced 1/2" ply cab, when well designed can be even more durable than typical 3/4" mass produced cabs (especially the old boxes). Unless of course you are so rough with your gear that you are denting it deeper than a half inch.

I don't have the time, tools or money build my own cabs.

The cabs that already exist that I like best happen to be heavy. I don't see what your problem with that is.

 

[Korladis]

Very true— most people don't know how to do that. (most people don't wear earplugs either unfortunately or take proper care of their forearms ). I'm reasonably strong and an average sized guy who exercises regularly. But I'm not lifting pianos everyday. I don't wear a weight belt around to move large objects for my daily routine. And I don't have a nice freight dolly at my disposal. In other words, I'm not predisposed to carrying 300lbs of equipment everyday. So for me it's unreasonable to own and store and perform with this size and weight of equipment.

And as an aside, being a reasonably energetic performer I'd rather not make my loading in or loading out experiences to be athletic endeavors. Again that's just me— I do enough stretching and water drinking before I actually play already.

I've never questioned anyone's sonic desires...their are pros and cons to it, like their are pros and cons to a "mini" rig.

I've only ever questioned the visual aesthetic value of a gigundus rig. Form follows function in the world of art. In other words if you need it for the function of the sound to create your vision, do what you've got to do. But, if it's visual appeal doesn't effect an audience one way or the other, I'd question the necessity of that kind of rig for that particular purpose especially if one good maintain their desires of volume, blurred vision, rumble etc and maintain their back, knees and hearing in the process.

Load-in/load-out takes five minutes. It's not like I have to hike a mile with whatever heavy gear I'm using. Really isn't difficult at all. Nor does my band gig every day, so that's not really an issue. When not gigging, the big amps and cabs stay at the rehearsal spot.

 

[JimmyM]

should be a sticky... cause i totally agree.

with who?



sartori's right. it's not that hard, really. but there is one moment i dread...and that's placing the amp on the cab. that's the only time there's bigtime deadlifting involved. but it's over in 5 seconds, so big deal. and for energy onstage, i'll mop the floor with you young punks!

but hey, i also totally understand the appeal of smps amps and neos. and there are some mighty fine tiny rigs out there, many of which sound better to me than some of the big rigs. i think it's totally understandable to want a light rig. but i can't sacrifice bigness. even if i were to go that route, the cabs would still have to be big because that's how i XA-cute.

 

[Korladis]

My friend always gets one of his bandmates to help for actually putting the SVT on top of the fridge.

 

[s_mcsleazy]

my rig isnt really big and it isnt really small

but i do have to admit the 1x15 weighs a ton so im thinking of trying to find a cheep 1x15 or 2x15 pa cab to run it with

but my rig is still loud with the 2x8 and the house cab so im not completly bothered

it works for what i need it for

 

[JimmyM]

holy crap, that bass gave me eyestrain!

what is that bass anyway? is that a jackson or a charvel?

 

[s_mcsleazy]

holy crap, that bass gave me eyestrain!

what is that bass anyway? is that a jackson or a charvel?

nope its a aria pro-II xrb that my cousen painted for me

its a awesome bass

super thin neck, plays great, sounds completly insane and lets be honist... the colour is amazing

 

[JimmyM]

yes, it's amazing if your last name is mcsleazy. perfect bass for that last name.

 

[s_mcsleazy]

yes, it's amazing if your last name is mcsleazy. perfect bass for that last name.

nope but my last name is rather close to mcsleazy

mcleavy

all ya gotta do is change some letters

 

[JimmyM]

go with mcsleazy. you'll get more chicks.

 

[Sundogue]

I don't have the time, tools or money build my own cabs.

The cabs that already exist that I like best happen to be heavy. I don't see what your problem with that is.

See? Another plausible answer! That's all I wanted. I didn't want anyone to get all defensive about their big old, heavy cabs...I just wanted a reason why. And you are the second person to do so. Thanks.

Why would you think I have a problem with you guys hauling heavy gear anyway? Why would I be the one with the problem if I'm not lifting it? If you want it, you like it and like hauling it around, cool with me. I never said anything close to telling anyone not to do it.

I think I mentioned...in every post no less, that I'm a fan of big sound, loud bass, etc. (look at the words next to my avatar) and that I'm just curious as to why anyone wants to haul around big heavy cabs when it's unnecessary. And it is unnecessary.

There are legitimate reasons for doing so, even though it is simply a choice. Some come across like having big heavy cabs is THE ONLY WAY to get that volume or sound and it's simply not true, so I just wanted to know why anyone would choose to. And I'm not talking about heavy tube heads either because I LOVE the sound of an all tube head. And short of trying the VT pedal (which I haven't tried yet...and even some diehard all valve lovers say comes damn close), I don't know anyway around that. I'm talking strictly about cabs.

So far, these are two legitimate answers...

1. You can get these heavy cabs dirt cheap.
2. I don't have the time, tools or money build my own cabs.

I can appreciate not having the money for anything other than some cab found cheap on craigslist or wherever. I've been there myself. I can also appreciate not having the means or desire to build lighter cabs (even for those heavy ancient speakers). So it makes sense that you just have to settle for big and heavy. Nothing wrong with that. One can only do what they can.

Anyone else with an answer?

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

Another fun bit of heavy music/big cabs trivia...

The first time I saw Ocean (who're more or less the cream of the crop when it comes to loud, heavy, & slow), they had a whole mess of gear on-stage. Most notably, one guitarist had a fullstack and the other had a 4x12" atop an oldschool 6x12."

Loud. As. ****. Bowel-loosening degrees of heavy.

Saw them twice last year (same venue, same P.A. system), the guitarists are now only using a 4x12" each, and the bass rig is "only" an SS Ampeg fridge. They might've been a little bit quieter, but it sounded a hell of a lot better.

 

[Sundogue]

Hi all, as usual, just 2 cents worth here. Personally, I like 200 watts rms thru a 1x15, or 2x12, tuned cabinet. I make my own cabinets, and may take a year to get it as close to perfect as I can. Seems like the volume goes WAY up when I get there. And, yes, dogue, I use 3/4" plywood. (But hey, I AM a cabinet maker)
And since when is 200 watts "small"? I honestly do not care what anybody else runs. Just use the right tool for the job. I don't use a 20 ounce framing hammer to eat peas. At 200 watts, I rarely turn it past 7, even with the loudest drummer.

I'm a cabinet maker too, as in a bass cabinet maker. And my brother is a cabinet maker as well. If you want to use 3/4" plywood go ahead, as there is nothing wrong with it that shaving a 1/4" of thickness off it wouldn't solve.

You mentioned not using a 20 ounce framing hammer to eat peas. Using that (mixed) analogy, why use 3/4" plywood when it is overkill? I know it's easier to build bass cabs with, but why do you like the added weight?

 

[Hagelslag]

I upgraded recently from a 2x10 markbass combo to a 700RBII head with a homebuilt BFM Omni 15 TB (15'' woofer. 8' mid' 1" tweet, all more or less hornloaded). I haven't played any louder than I used to but the thing just sounds better for various reasons. It's closer to ear level, the rig moves more air at the same volume level, and thus providing more sound to the whole stage (relevant because I don't go over monitors), It doesn't sound as 'forced' as the small rig would and IF I need more volume, in case of a no PA gig, I got it. I'm not only talking about the BFM cab (allthough this seriously is the best cab I've ever player through) but I'm talking about 410's and 810's as well.

I loved that 210 combo, but a bigger rig (and again, I'm not just talking about the BFM) is just easier to hear and not because of increased volume. This IMO ofcourse.

 

[Korladis]

As I said, the weight really isn't an issue for me. Plus, the larger the cab, the more likely it has wheels. A few minutes of moving something heavy isn't really a big deal at all.

To build my own cabs, I would have to acquire the tools necessary to do so, not just power tools, quite a few of which I have already, but also probably a bit more sophisticated means of measuring things. Related to that, I'd need to develop much better skills at using them (the head cab I built for my amp is functional, but definitely not pretty). I would have to acquire the necessary materals; speakers, lumber, wiring, corners, casters, tolex, tolex glue, etc.

Lots of this requires money. I don't have very much of that, as I'm a senior in college.

This also requires a lot of time. Lots of it. The time and money I'd have to spend building my own cabs I prefer to keep in exchange for lugging somewhat heavier cabs around. I could learn to do all this and build my own cabs with modern materials, or I could spend time doing other stuff and play through the Sunn 6x10 or the Ampeg & Ashdown 1x15 + 2x10 rig already at the warehouse.

And if I COULD build my own cabs, I wouldn't go small. I'd build a 2x15/4x10 or a 4x15.

 

[Foz]

go with mcsleazy. you'll get more chicks.

Naa...

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[s_mcsleazy]

Naa...

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this looks like me 3 years ago when i was doing a part for my dads acting thingy

 

[Sundogue]

As I said, the weight really isn't an issue for me. Plus, the larger the cab, the more likely it has wheels. A few minutes of moving something heavy isn't really a big deal at all.

To build my own cabs, I would have to acquire the tools necessary to do so, not just power tools, quite a few of which I have already, but also probably a bit more sophisticated means of measuring things. Related to that, I'd need to develop much better skills at using them (the head cab I built for my amp is functional, but definitely not pretty). I would have to acquire the necessary materals; speakers, lumber, wiring, corners, casters, tolex, tolex glue, etc.

Lots of this requires money. I don't have very much of that, as I'm a senior in college.

This also requires a lot of time. Lots of it. The time and money I'd have to spend building my own cabs I prefer to keep in exchange for lugging somewhat heavier cabs around. I could learn to do all this and build my own cabs with modern materials, or I could spend time doing other stuff and play through the Sunn 6x10 or the Ampeg & Ashdown 1x15 + 2x10 rig already at the warehouse.

And if I COULD build my own cabs, I wouldn't go small. I'd build a 2x15/4x10 or a 4x15.

I know where you are coming from and I can appreciate that. I put wheels on even my smaller cabs because it's easier just to roll them in.

I don't like small cabs either (at least on their own), like say 110's, 210's or 112's for example. If I go the 210 route, I'd pair it with another 210 or 115. I've had lightweight 115's but used a pair of them.

I currently built a 215 cab that is 22X25X17 and it weighs only 38 lbs. It took me a total of two weeks to build, spending at most a 1/2 hour a day on it. I could easily have built it over a weekend. It is loud enough to drown everyone in the band out, though I never play it that loud.

And you could build a 4X15 that would make everyone in the band deaf (literally, through constant use cranked) and it would be so much lighter than any of these old cabs of yore. Using 1/2" ply and loaded with Eminence 3015's, that's only 4 lbs. total of speakers and maybe a 70 lb. cab total on casters (or split it up into two even lighter 2X15's), yet you'd have an 1800 watt rig that's easier to haul around and would still blow away the old heavy cabs easily.

Someday when you have the time, space and money to try a build, build a big one if you want, but try to build a light one. You'll be amazed at how loud you can get, how good it can sound and you may never go back to a heavy cab again (especially if you're older by then).

Most of the older guys on here (myself included) have just grown tired of heavy gear. We play a variety of genres in different situations, so not everyone is going to want it loud, and some can get by with real tiny rigs. But for those that like it loud, you can have that and still use lighter cabs. Some guys (like JimmyM) know they can go lighter but don't care to (for a legitimate reason), and that's cool too. I just want my fellow bass players to know they do actually have choices and going light doesn't have to mean wimpy sound or low volume.

 

[dan stanton]

Sundogue, I use 3/4" plywood so I don't need all that extra bracing. Dadoes and rabbets are fine and require little extra set-up. Carpentry is carpentry, whether you are building a bass cabinet or cedar chest. 1/2" plywood is less sturdy than 3/4". And I want the speaker to do the rockin' not the cabinet.
As I said, use the proper tool for the job.