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2 Types of bassists it seems....

#141
It can get very loud. I've not ever gotten it past noon and it gets ridiculously loud at times, even at 8 ohms. That said, I wouldn't put it up against the onslaught of guitars you mentioned without a second cab to get the full 500 watts. At 8 ohms it puts out just at 300 watts I believe. 300 watts is loud enough for most situations I play in, but I don't play in loud rock bands much. It's a beast powering two cabs... I'd go that route to get the full power allotment out of the head.

baddarryl said:
How loud is that thing if you don't mind? I am thinking of getting one myself. I know it is 500W RMS and would be going into my 8 ohm Goliath II cab. Is that thing loud enough to go again 1/2 stacks in a hard rock/metal band? Amazing tone in those heads. Thanks.
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#143
rbonner said:
Hey what's going on? Another Newbie blows everything into a frenzy? Even guys who have been around since TB started are in a frenzy. Talk about a button push.

I wanna sell my REALLY REALLY big rig, So I can build a REALLY REALLY REALLY bigger rig.

FYI, Build it so your vision blurs completely on any note and then turn down the volume knob for what you need.

I'm old (54) have wrecked back (from other adventures), can hear the ocean in my ears (sounds like tsunami) and I still wanna bigger rig. I'd have it by now but I ran out of money.... Somebody buy all my 810's I have 815's and 821's to build.

You guys keep arguing... BOB
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We're just discussing, not arguing. :D

My question has never been adequately answered. I keep hearing how you guys want seriously large rigs and I get that completely. I don't care if you have fifty 810's or 215's or whatever. I bet it would sound monstrous! :hyper:

With newer technology and better, lighter cab design, why do you guys want it to be so heavy? If I actually wanted to be so damn loud that I needed that many speakers, I'd build own cabs and use neo speakers. I could double the size of any rig here and end up carrying perhaps up to one quarter of the weight. Pick a monster rig, any rig and I could double the speaker mass, increase the volume and still have 1/4 of the weight to carry. And I could get any tone I wanted because despite the idea that you can only get your tone out of these vintage speakers/cabs, you can design a cab using modern drivers to sound like anything you want it to sound like. It's all in the design.

My question isn't "Why do you guys want to be so loud?" I get that you want it loud and the tone you get, you feel comes from these old cabs. I get that, I understand that and can even appreciate that. My question is...Why do you guys actually want it to also be heavy when it doesn't have to be?

The only conclusion I can come to is that it is because of one of the following (and it would be understandable)...

1. Can't afford anything but old, heavy cabs on the cheap.
2. Have no carpentry skills, or a place to build your own lighter stuff.
3. Have no desire or time to build your own.
4. Bragging rights or pissing contest.
5. I can only get my tone from big, heavy cabinets because someone told me tone is all in the wood. Heavier wood gives a heavier sound.
6. I love the sound of the old twenty pound speakers and they have to be mounted in cabs that use car batteries for ballast.
7. There's magic pixie dust sprinkled on the paper cones made out rolling papers and the magnets use a special mojo resin that can't be found in any other speaker.
8. I'm making up for a lack of something else.
9. I care about the planet and I'm into recycling. I'd hate to see these old monsters in a landfill, so I'm just doing my part by using them.
10. I just played through these cabs and I like the sound and never considered that I don't have to haul this crap around when there are lighter alternatives, or I did consider the alternatives, but just don't care.

So which is it, huh? I'm not going to have some life changing epiphany with the answers. I'm just curious.
 
#144
Sartori said:
Because they like the tone of specific cabs, that's why.
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Understandable. You do know that it's the speakers and cab design that gives you that sound, right? You do know that you can use newer, lighter speakers and design a cab to sound any way you want it to sound, including that old vintage sound, right?

You also know that not all plywood is 3/4" thick and that MDF is actually 10 lbs. of glue mixed with 3 lbs. of sawdust per square inch, right? :D

Sartori said:
Also, cabs get handled roughly quite a bit on tours. Extra thickness brings extra durability.
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Commercial manufacturers will love you for that recommendation. A properly braced 1/2" ply cab, when well designed can be even more durable than typical 3/4" mass produced cabs (especially the old boxes). Unless of course you are so rough with your gear that you are denting it deeper than a half inch. :confused:
 
#145
Sartori said:
If one lifts heavy items correctly, the physical exertion of doing so won't injure the back or knees.

And ear plugs have been around for quite some time now. I recommend their use for anyone playing loud music.
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Very true— most people don't know how to do that. (most people don't wear earplugs either unfortunately or take proper care of their forearms ). I'm reasonably strong and an average sized guy who exercises regularly. But I'm not lifting pianos everyday. I don't wear a weight belt around to move large objects for my daily routine. And I don't have a nice freight dolly at my disposal. In other words, I'm not predisposed to carrying 300lbs of equipment everyday. So for me it's unreasonable to own and store and perform with this size and weight of equipment.

And as an aside, being a reasonably energetic performer I'd rather not make my loading in or loading out experiences to be athletic endeavors. Again that's just me— I do enough stretching and water drinking before I actually play already.

I've never questioned anyone's sonic desires...their are pros and cons to it, like their are pros and cons to a "mini" rig.

I've only ever questioned the visual aesthetic value of a gigundus rig. Form follows function in the world of art. In other words if you need it for the function of the sound to create your vision, do what you've got to do. But, if it's visual appeal doesn't effect an audience one way or the other, I'd question the necessity of that kind of rig for that particular purpose especially if one good maintain their desires of volume, blurred vision, rumble etc and maintain their back, knees and hearing in the process.
 
#148
Sundogue said:
Low end does not cut through at all. Mids do.
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Eh, well mids do "cut" but I often find it better to get under than cut through. There are whole octaves of stuff that no guitar can touch. Wheras if you are counting on mid to carry the day all it takes is a twist of a knob for the guitarist to ruin your tone.

Of course that doesn't work for all styles of music. Funk, fusion and others need mids to work.
As far as heavy cabs go have you ever heard of a concrete subwoofer? That is a sub built into a stage or nightclub floor literally cast from concrete, driven with a decent regular driver.
Serious low end with none of those cabinet vibrations at certain freqs. See also the Mesa roadready 2x15" cabs. Thick as hell, no problem with low end solidity. Also heavy as hell.
 
#149
In essence, there are two sound situations. The first is the gig requires a P.A. for the band to be heard. In that instance, the size of the amp doesn't matter because you are going to be DI'd or mic'd. If its a DI, you could technically gig without an amp at all. I don't believe a good mic has been invented for bass and always opt for DI. But, even if you disagree, no one needs 2000 watts through an 8x10 to get their sound to a single mic.

In the second instance, the show is not big enough to require a full P.A. and you're using stage volume. Again, in that instance 2000 watts through an 8x10 is overkill. You can usually fill those gigs with a combo and avoid the hassle of hauling the big rig.

I used to take a full stack with 4x10 and 1x15 and a rackmount head to every show. In seventeen years of playing out, I just can't recall a single instance where I needed it.
 
#150
Thankful birds said:
In essence, there are two sound situations. The first is the gig requires a P.A. for the band to be heard. In that instance, the size of the amp doesn't matter because you are going to be DI'd or mic'd. If its a DI, you could technically gig without an amp at all. I don't believe a good mic has been invented for bass and always opt for DI. But, even if you disagree, no one needs 2000 watts through an 8x10 to get their sound to a single mic.

In the second instance, the show is not big enough to require a full P.A. and you're using stage volume. Again, in that instance 2000 watts through an 8x10 is overkill. You can usually fill those gigs with a combo and avoid the hassle of hauling the big rig.

I used to take a full stack with 4x10 and 1x15 and a rackmount head to every show. In seventeen years of playing out, I just can't recall a single instance where I needed it.
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Better duck
 
#151
Lincoln said:
Better duck
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eh, he wasn't quite as obnoxious as you. there were moments he aspired to it, but then he reeled it back in a little. both of you are right about yourselves. the problem only comes when you think everyone should do what you do. if someone wants to run 2000w through their 810, yes it's silly because with 2000w you should have at least 2 or 3 810's ;) but if it makes the player feel better about playing, hey, far be it for me to criticize. goof on it a little, sure, but i won't impose my value judgments on them.
 
#152
JimmyM said:
eh, he wasn't quite as obnoxious as you. there were moments he aspired to it, but then he reeled it back in a little. both of you are right about yourselves. the problem only comes when you think everyone should do what you do. if someone wants to run 2000w through their 810, yes it's silly because with 2000w you should have at least 2 or 3 810's ;) but if it makes the player feel better about playing, hey, far be it for me to criticize. goof on it a little, sure, but i won't impose my value judgments on them.
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You won't impose your value judgments on them, but you'll insult someone and call their character and personality into question....

You don't have to like or agree with my opinions or my thoughts, but you could proceed to be a gentleman about it.

And frankly speaking, no one here has the power to impose anything on anyone. Imposing requires having the power to make someone do, say or believe something against their will or by threat of malice...

No one here has that power and no one in this thread has done that...
 
#154
Lincoln said:
You won't impose your value judgments on them, but you'll insult someone and call their character and personality into question....

You don't have to like or agree with my opinions or my thoughts, but you could proceed to be a gentleman about it.

And frankly speaking, no one here has the power to impose anything on anyone. Imposing requires having the power to make someone do, say or believe something against their will or by threat of malice...

No one here has that power and no one in this thread has done that...
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ah wait till the militant downsizers come banging on your door!lol. sorry but thought that term was funny by JIMMY M.
 
#156
my goofing on those with 2000w rigs is limited to comments about killing babies with volume and potential sterility. once in a while i call it bragging rights too, especially if they're using that rig in a 100 seat bar. but while it's true that i don't get where someone needs that much power, especially if they throw it into a tiny cab, i'm totally behind them if they want to do it, but i will laugh at them when they blow their tiny cab. and that's why i am a legendary and beloved figure on talkbass ;)
 
#157
...I'm in the first group. The smaller the better.

I don't drive, and I have no roadies, so I need to be able to schlep my rig, by hand, around the city. To do that, I'm currently using a 2x10 (56 lbs) powered by a Traynor YBA-200 (46 lbs) - about a hundred pounds all told. Being young and strong, I can handle it with one box in each hand - but even that is far more than I would like to have.

I'm planning to get myself a DB300T(350w, 2x8, kickback, 45 lbs) for gigging and leave the 2x10/tube head in the studio - I figure, as many have said before, that your amp is simply your stage monitor, and I'll let the FOH handle the heavy lifting. I'll just throw my Sansamp and my JDI in my gigbag, and let FOH pump my signal through the monitors (what do guitards and singers know/care about bass tone anyway?). If I ever need more volume than the two eights can provide (and they get quite shockingly loud, given their size), I'll pick up the 25-pound 1x12 extension.
 
#158
Thank you. That is what this forum is all about!

JazznFunk said:
It can get very loud. I've not ever gotten it past noon and it gets ridiculously loud at times, even at 8 ohms. That said, I wouldn't put it up against the onslaught of guitars you mentioned without a second cab to get the full 500 watts. At 8 ohms it puts out just at 300 watts I believe. 300 watts is loud enough for most situations I play in, but I don't play in loud rock bands much. It's a beast powering two cabs... I'd go that route to get the full power allotment out of the head.
Click to expand...
 
#159
Calaverasgrande said:
Eh, well mids do "cut" but I often find it better to get under than cut through. There are whole octaves of stuff that no guitar can touch. Wheras if you are counting on mid to carry the day all it takes is a twist of a knob for the guitarist to ruin your tone.

Of course that doesn't work for all styles of music. Funk, fusion and others need mids to work.
As far as heavy cabs go have you ever heard of a concrete subwoofer? That is a sub built into a stage or nightclub floor literally cast from concrete, driven with a decent regular driver.
Serious low end with none of those cabinet vibrations at certain freqs. See also the Mesa roadready 2x15" cabs. Thick as hell, no problem with low end solidity. Also heavy as hell.
Click to expand...

Of course there are whole octaves of stuff guitars don't touch...and neither do a lot of commercial bass cabs, and that includes a lot of these so-called monsters. The cabs are big, but there are too many drivers (15's or 18's) in those cabs (for the internal cab volume) to really go very low...perceptions aside.

And it begs the question...Why would you want to play with guitarists that want to ruin your tone? Seems to me a lot of this "need" has to do with battling egos, not gear.

And I'd really hate to be the guy hauling around a subwoofer with a concrete cab. ;)
 

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