Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
2 Types of bassists it seems....
- Thread starter coffinbuilder
- Start date
I guess you didn't understand the part where I said if a person wants to shlep around 300 lbs of gear, by all means have a blast.
You can stop taking it personally any time now...
My rig probably weighs over 600 pounds actually...
We haven't played any shows for months due to not having a van...
This is, of course, another issue. My entire rig (even when I'm also hauling the PA) fits into my little Chevy HHR.
I can certainly understand the visceral appeal of a Marshall stack, an SVT with an 8x10, and a drum kit like Neil Peart's. But if the physical size of my band's equipment was preventing us from being able to gig (stages too small to hold our stuff, inadequate transportation, whatever), I'd seriously start rethinking the vibe of the gargantuan gear over against the ability to go out and play in public and maybe even make some money.
Have I been in situations where the PA was inadequate to give me the amount of thump and roar that I desired? Sure. But if I had set up a monster rig to overcome the problems of an inadequate PA, then the vocals would have been lost, buried in my bass playing.
It all comes back to what's suitable for the genre, the venue, and the other technology components. In the genre I play I am a part of the rhythm section, not the star soloist... so I only have to be as loud as the drummer. Since he plays a ZenDrum, he can be whisper-quiet if circumstances require. So given the reality of my genre and the size of the venues we typically play, I can get the job done beautifully with something I can carry in one hand. If I rolled in an 8x10, no one could hear anyone else in the band, no one in the place could hear a conversation, and we'd be fired on the spot. So that would hardly service our music, our audience or our career.
If your genre and typical venues call for a mountain of cabinets two stories high, well, then that's what you have to haul in and set up.
This has nothing to do with being on a "side." It has nothing to do with one approach being "better" than another. It has everything to do with making choices that are appropriate for the job you are trying to do.
I never understand why discussions like these have to dissolve into taking sides and trading belligerent posts. Geez, if you're happy playing your bass through a transistor radio, God bless you. If you need 2000 tube watts and a dozen 15's, God bless you too. Why does someone always have to "win?"
This is, of course, another issue. My entire rig (even when I'm also hauling the PA) fits into my little Chevy HHR.
I can certainly understand the visceral appeal of a Marshall stack, an SVT with an 8x10, and a drum kit like Neil Peart's. But if the physical size of my band's equipment was preventing us from being able to gig (stages too small to hold our stuff, inadequate transportation, whatever), I'd seriously start rethinking the vibe of the gargantuan gear over against the ability to go out and play in public and maybe even make some money.
Have I been in situations where the PA was inadequate to give me the amount of thump and roar that I desired? Sure. But if I had set up a monster rig to overcome the problems of an inadequate PA, then the vocals would have been lost, buried in my bass playing.
It all comes back to what's suitable for the genre, the venue, and the other technology components. In the genre I play I am a part of the rhythm section, not the star soloist... so I only have to be as loud as the drummer. Since he plays a ZenDrum, he can be whisper-quiet if circumstances require. So given the reality of my genre and the size of the venues we typically play, I can get the job done beautifully with something I can carry in one hand. If I rolled in an 8x10, no one could hear anyone else in the band, no one in the place could hear a conversation, and we'd be fired on the spot. So that would hardly service our music, our audience or our career.
If your genre and typical venues call for a mountain of cabinets two stories high, well, then that's what you have to haul in and set up.
This has nothing to do with being on a "side." It has nothing to do with one approach being "better" than another. It has everything to do with making choices that are appropriate for the job you are trying to do.
I never understand why discussions like these have to dissolve into taking sides and trading belligerent posts. Geez, if you're happy playing your bass through a transistor radio, God bless you. If you need 2000 tube watts and a dozen 15's, God bless you too. Why does someone always have to "win?"
well-stated
I want everyone who has posted to know that I am not knocking giant rigs as much as it might appear and I completely understand the genre of music, the venues one plays in and personal tastes vary greatly so no matter how big or small the rig, it's just a matter of what gets the job done.
I'm just a bass player (for over 30 years) and a DIY cab designer who still likes it loud but doesn't want it large or heavy. Being a cab builder, even if I had an SVT 810, I'd build a new cab out of 1/2" and brace it just to save some weight. Sorry, but use of 3/4" ply in bass cabs is just plain stupid, except of course for commercial cab manufacturer's bottom line. It costs more for them to build a bass cab out of 1/2" because of the bracing adding to the manufacturing costs (even though many builders use 3/4" and bracing anyway).
I love it as loud as necessary for whatever the type of music needs it to be, so I'm not in the camp of let's keep everything quiet. I like it loud. Sometimes I like it just plain bowel moving loud, but I just don't want it to also be heavy. And with today's technology it doesn't need to be. It does if you are solely relying on outdated designs. Not much you can do about that short of building a lighter cab for those speakers.
My feelings are pretty clear I think. I understand the need to be loud, even with deep lows. I just don't know why anyone likes carrying heavy stuff when there are lighter alternatives (even if you haven't tried any of it, it does exist).
I'm just a bass player (for over 30 years) and a DIY cab designer who still likes it loud but doesn't want it large or heavy. Being a cab builder, even if I had an SVT 810, I'd build a new cab out of 1/2" and brace it just to save some weight. Sorry, but use of 3/4" ply in bass cabs is just plain stupid, except of course for commercial cab manufacturer's bottom line. It costs more for them to build a bass cab out of 1/2" because of the bracing adding to the manufacturing costs (even though many builders use 3/4" and bracing anyway).
I love it as loud as necessary for whatever the type of music needs it to be, so I'm not in the camp of let's keep everything quiet. I like it loud. Sometimes I like it just plain bowel moving loud, but I just don't want it to also be heavy. And with today's technology it doesn't need to be. It does if you are solely relying on outdated designs. Not much you can do about that short of building a lighter cab for those speakers.
My feelings are pretty clear I think. I understand the need to be loud, even with deep lows. I just don't know why anyone likes carrying heavy stuff when there are lighter alternatives (even if you haven't tried any of it, it does exist).
You must rebuy it immediately. JOIN THE COLLECTIVE.
Actually I guess I come off as pro downsizing, but I'm more "Pro get the job done." If the 8x10 does it go for it. My general opinion is that if you need more than a 4x10, the 8x10 makes great sense. Hauling two 100lb cabs can kiss my ass.
That said, *in general* I would like to see most people go to stage volume rigs that are as loud as the drummer with a bit of headroom - the reasoning for that is that the only reason I see to ever be louder than the drummer is if his kick is in the PA, and if his kick is in the PA you can be too.
It's pretty selfish though: If people are louder than they need to be on stage, vocals tend to progressively decline. When I go to a show, I want quiet to hear every nuance of the vocals and all the backup clearly.
I sure as hell wouldn't tell someone to get rid of the SVT though, that's crazy talk. They sound amazing. Not amazing enough for me but amazingWay different than a V4B, so not really any downsizing option there unless you are doing modeling.
Now, if you're a guy who uses an SVT and an 8x10 but can control your stage volume, you are a rarity and I salute you. Most of the time I see that rig, I hear thunderous bass on stage and the volume creep that goes along with that. You see the guitar player turning knobs in between songs and the hate floods in. Arr.
Since I go to metal shows mainly, the vocals aren't all that important most of the time.
The only guy I know personally with an SVT rig is a "set it and forget it" kind of guy when it comes to volume and EQ.
An SVT + 810 isn't always monstrously loud. It merely has the capability of being so. It can also be as quiet as necessary. SVT's do have volume knobs, after all.
Because they like the tone of specific cabs, that's why.
Also, cabs get handled roughly quite a bit on tours. Extra thickness brings extra durability.
let's tie a bow on this issue. Moving air is great, feeling the volume fine, lugging 200-300lb is fine if it's your bag. Those are subjective issues.
If a person wants to be crippled by 40 that's their business. If a person wants to be deaf by 35 that's their business. These aren't subjective opinions. These are distinct and real possibilities.
IMO I think most of us want to be able to perform our music for as long as we want and be able to come and go on our own terms, not the terms that infirmary or handicap or dictates.
I learned this lesson in a band with an excellent drummer about 5 years my senior when I was about 21...He at that age, had severe tinitis and complained constantly about the ringing in his ears...I knew I didn't want that to be me. I'm 34 now and still have my hearing and I exercise regularly and still have my health. You can always buy smaller more efficient equipment, you can't buy back a new spine or ears or hips or knees....
I mean if you like surgery and plastic in your joints, by all means have at it...
If one lifts heavy items correctly, the physical exertion of doing so won't injure the back or knees.
And ear plugs have been around for quite some time now. I recommend their use for anyone playing loud music.
Yes, there are two types of bassists: those who think there are two types of bassists and those who don't.
Yes, there are two types of bassists: those who think there are two types of bassists and those who don't.
As I said earlier in the thread, I think bassists come in as many varieties as people do. Lots.
Hey what's going on? Another Newbie blows everything into a frenzy? Even guys who have been around since TB started are in a frenzy. Talk about a button push.
I wanna sell my REALLY REALLY big rig, So I can build a REALLY REALLY REALLY bigger rig.
FYI, Build it so your vision blurs completely on any note and then turn down the volume knob for what you need.
I'm old (54) have wrecked back (from other adventures), can hear the ocean in my ears (sounds like tsunami) and I still wanna bigger rig. I'd have it by now but I ran out of money.... Somebody buy all my 810's I have 815's and 821's to build.
You guys keep arguing... BOB
I wanna sell my REALLY REALLY big rig, So I can build a REALLY REALLY REALLY bigger rig.
FYI, Build it so your vision blurs completely on any note and then turn down the volume knob for what you need.
I'm old (54) have wrecked back (from other adventures), can hear the ocean in my ears (sounds like tsunami) and I still wanna bigger rig. I'd have it by now but I ran out of money.... Somebody buy all my 810's I have 815's and 821's to build.
You guys keep arguing... BOB
I have gigged with everything from a 112 combo to an 810.
One band I was playing in had a markbass 1x12 combo, and I have to say, that thing got freaking loud!
The majority of gigs I play these days I use my 410, and it does the job more than well enough. As much as I like to be surrounded by bass, being a FOH engineer, I can appreciate the havoc it can cause.
I played with my 410 on monday, and due to the acoustic nature of the venue, my normal volume level (which just keeps up with the drummer in our rehearsal space) I was far too loud. So I turned down and all was good.
I do plan on gigging with my 810 once we start playing appropriate venues. Sure it's a huge cab but, as other have said, you can turn it down.
My 410 is more than enough cab realistically, but ever since I got the 810 I can now understand why you always see rock bassists playing them; there is something truly magical about them. Even if they're not cranked, they just seem to surround you in sound, moreso than even a 610 can do.
One band I was playing in had a markbass 1x12 combo, and I have to say, that thing got freaking loud!
The majority of gigs I play these days I use my 410, and it does the job more than well enough. As much as I like to be surrounded by bass, being a FOH engineer, I can appreciate the havoc it can cause.
I played with my 410 on monday, and due to the acoustic nature of the venue, my normal volume level (which just keeps up with the drummer in our rehearsal space) I was far too loud. So I turned down and all was good.
I do plan on gigging with my 810 once we start playing appropriate venues. Sure it's a huge cab but, as other have said, you can turn it down.
My 410 is more than enough cab realistically, but ever since I got the 810 I can now understand why you always see rock bassists playing them; there is something truly magical about them. Even if they're not cranked, they just seem to surround you in sound, moreso than even a 610 can do.
Finally, the (really loud) voice of reason
. Bob, if you build it, I would very much appreciate seeing pictures. Personally, I'm convinced that you should buy, play, and enjoy whatever it is in terms of gear that completely blows your mind. Agree on the use of earplugs: play louder, longer! Seems like a win-win to me.
How loud is that thing if you don't mind? I am thinking of getting one myself. I know it is 500W RMS and would be going into my 8 ohm Goliath II cab. Is that thing loud enough to go again 1/2 stacks in a hard rock/metal band? Amazing tone in those heads. Thanks.
sorry if i get a little testy over this stuff, but it just galls me how myopic bass players can be.
Hi Jimmy. Are you being 'Devils Advocate'? I thought, in another thread, you liked your 1 x 15" for all gigs (even open air).
In my funk band, I use 2 x 410 with 1200 watt bi-amp.
In the crapola 60s' band, 1 x 410 is more than adequate.
And I do wear glasses for driving, to counter my myopia.
Hi Jimmy. Are you being 'Devils Advocate'? I thought, in another thread, you liked your 1 x 15" for all gigs (even open air).
In my funk band, I use 2 x 410 with 1200 watt bi-amp.
In the crapola 60s' band, 1 x 410 is more than adequate.
And I do wear glasses for driving, to counter my myopia.
Yeah I just got new glasses but I got them so I could see the stage and judge the AMATEUR CONTEST at the local strip club two weeks ago. What a terrible way to spend a wednesday night!
BOB
I'm in the camp of cheap adequacy. Gigged with a $350 Yorkville 400B for a long time & picked up a Bassman 135 and 2x15 last summer for $550 and it's my current rig. Before that I had a 100W Crate combo that I used before I started playing shows and borrowed a friend's SWR WM15 a few times in college.
not quite what i said. i said my b-15 rig works great and with my band it will carry pretty large theater gigs by itself and arenas with a pa. and i do use it a lot for my outdoor gigs where we play for a few thousand people (free admission, i wish we could collect money from them!) and it works fine. but i'd rather use my svt and 810. just sounds bigger.Hi Jimmy. Are you being 'Devils Advocate'? I thought, in another thread, you liked your 1 x 15" for all gigs (even open air).
In my funk band, I use 2 x 410 with 1200 watt bi-amp.
In the crapola 60s' band, 1 x 410 is more than adequate.
And I do wear glasses for driving, to counter my myopia.
