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210 + 410 problem?

sprag

sprag

Sep 15, 2011
1,282
1,445
Melb Australia
#1
If I get a Goliath iii 8 ohm, to put under my Goliath jr iii 8 ohm. will I run into any of the issues associated with mixing 2 unlike cabs?

I normally run 2 or sometimes 3 like 115's with great success. circumstances dictate that I must have a second rig and I already have the Goliath jr which won't quite cut it volume wise.
 
#6
The 410 would get half the power of the 210.

So, as long as the amp won't over power the 210, running a 410 as well will not cause any problems, either with your amp or sound.
 
#9
chris_b said:
The 410 would get half the power of the 210.

So, as long as the amp won't over power the 210, running a 410 as well will not cause any problems, either with your amp or sound.
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Each box will receive the same RMS. Each 210 driver will see twice the RMS of each 410 driver. This is basically the same scenario of the very ill-advised 410/115 rig. The 210 can get pushed too hard & because the 410's going to be much louder, it's not difficult to not hear the 210 struggling. Blowing the 210 wouldn't be so far-fetched. Keep volume lower to protect the 210? O.K., but the 410 by itself with the volume turned up a bit more will yield the same volume. So why buy the 210 in the 1st place?
 
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#10
sprag said:
If I get a Goliath iii 8 ohm, to put under my Goliath jr iii 8 ohm. will I run into any of the issues associated with mixing 2 unlike cabs?

I normally run 2 or sometimes 3 like 115's with great success. circumstances dictate that I must have a second rig and I already have the Goliath jr which won't quite cut it volume wise.
Click to expand...
Even if they belong to the same product line, two cabinets of same nominal impedance and equipped with drivers of same diameter but in different number are in fact unlike: the drivers are guaranteed to be different - voiced similarly perhaps, but different nonetheless. So, aside from power distribution problems outlined above, you still have the crapshoot issue of mixing potentially different tones and phase responses - might be complementary, might work against each other.

Your safest bet is buying an identical 8 ohm Junior series III. Or two of them, since you mention running three cabs at once sometimes: I understand you've got a 2(.66 at least) ohm capable head. Here's option b (or c, if you count the potentially long/expensive trackdown and purchase of two series III Juniors): get a 4 ohm Goliath III (4x10).
This thread establishes 8 ohm Juniors have 16 ohm drivers: it is only logical that their 4 ohm 410 counterparts have the same drivers. Running both cabs, each driver will receive the same power, response should be nearly the same (provided the cabs are tuned the same in the same airspace*) or at least compatible.
(Pro: you have three combinations available, with two, four or six drivers depending on volume required by the gig. Con: should you get the 410 and later switch heads and lose your less-than-4-ohm capability...you'd be SOL, or just out of the option of running both cabs.)


EDIT: It must be Goliath III Day! This just in: the 8 ohm version of the 410 is loaded with 8 ohm drivers wired series/parallel. Just for future reference - I stand by my previous comments about avoiding the 8 ohm 4x10 in your specific situation. Well, unless you decide to unload the Junior...
EDIT2: *per driver
 
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#11
The jr would add very little to the output potential of the Sr when both are 8ohm.

At the point the 2x10 begins to struggle the 4x10 is just getting half power so there's a huge illusion of headroom remaining putting the 210 in danger.

The difference in loudness is very little from sending the 410 alone to the same point as the 210 got to.

If you can find another jrIII unmolested it would make a very sweet vertical stack. One of your 15's under the vertical jrIII you have might be quite acceptable in meantime.
 
#13
If this was a question about running 2 210's, who would have a problem with that?

So one cab is a 410. And it's getting the same power as the the 210. That is running the 410 at less power than it's capable of handling but it doesn't follow that; a) the 410 will sound bad as a result, or b) the 210 is going to be over powered in this rig.

So there is no issue or problem which was the question asked by the OP.
 
#15
I have one amp that will deliver 750 W at 4 Ohms
I have one 210 cab that will happily take about half that at 8 Ohms
I have one 410 cab available to me at a good price that will easily take half that at 8 Ohms

As the drivers in each cab are not of the same impedance they are not actually matched.
thats all I required from the question.


sprag said:
Cheers. Thankyou
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#16
@chris_b: Either or both could happen though. In 410+210 or 410+115 situations, even when the asymmetrical stack happens to sound good, one has to wonder if the smaller cab is actually worth schlepping around if it's either on the verge of frying, or kept in the safe zone but contributing little in terms of output (and you could get the same by just pushing the 410, by itself, a little more).

But it's the 210 that sprag already owns, not the 410. In that case, as I said, it's either getting another 210 or, if the head allows it, a 410 with half the impedance.
 
#17
HaphAsSard said:
@chris_b: Either or both could happen though. In 410+210 or 410+115 situations, even when the asymmetrical stack happens to sound good, one has to wonder if the smaller cab is actually worth schlepping around if it's either on the verge of frying, or kept in the safe zone but contributing little in terms of output (and you could get the same by just pushing the 410, by itself, a little more).

But it's the 210 that sprag already owns, not the 410. In that case, as I said, it's either getting another 210 or, if the head allows it, a 410 with half the impedance.
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Yes.

Ah, had it backward. Then, also yes, an extra 210 is the ticket.
 
#18
chris_b said:
If this was a question about running 2 210's, who would have a problem with that?

So one cab is a 410. And it's getting the same power as the the 210. That is running the 410 at less power than it's capable of handling but it doesn't follow that; a) the 410 will sound bad as a result, or b) the 210 is going to be over powered in this rig.

So there is no issue or problem which was the question asked by the OP.
Click to expand...

No real problem other then the rig will only get as loud as running the 4X10 by itself, so kind of pointless carrying around 2 cabs.
 
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#19
sprag said:
I have one amp that will deliver 750 W at 4 Ohms
I have one 210 cab that will happily take about half that at 8 Ohms
I have one 410 cab available to me at a good price that will easily take half that at 8 Ohms

As the drivers in each cab are not of the same impedance they are not actually matched.
thats all I required from the question.
Click to expand...
My JrIII can't handle my 250w amp without muzzling the lows, even then it doesn't pay to crank it. It is pretty good with my 15.

It doesn't seem to have sunk in. If it really is 700w, whatever you can get out of the 210 the 410 will do double by itself and only very slighty more with the 210.

Your missmatch beams mids at best.
 
#20
Bass_Pounder said:
No real problem other then the rig will only get as loud as running the 4X10 by itself, so kind of pointless carrying around 2 cabs.
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That's 100% right. Don't know why so many fellas can't understand this. Same for the infamous 410/115. A lot of it, I'm sure, has to do with indoctrination & just plain old not wanting to see it. Oh well, for the guys who still want it, it's their bread. They can do with it anything (well, almost anything :D ) they care to.
 
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