212... Berg or Barefaced?

[pfschim]

as always the try before you buy advice is the best. But in the case of Berg/BF, if you are in the US (your sig does not indicate), there are a reasonable number of Bergantino dealers where you can at least try them with your amp to see how they work for your tone goals. With BF, it will not be so simple. I know Alex tries very hard to accommodate potential buyers, his UK location makes that a challenge in some ways.

Lots of discussions here on all of the so-called super cabs (BF, Fearless/fearful, Baer, Berg, AK etc.) so there are some decent compares you can read about.
What I have taken away from these comparisons (I have been interested in BF myself) is that the BF 12's will perhaps be a bit more deep, handle a bit more power, and be a bit more neutral than the Bergs. The Bergantino 12's deliver great, full range tone with various degrees of mid focus depending on the line (CN/HDN, AE ...). While the BF cabs may have more deep lows, I have never felt that the Bergs were shy in the low end at all.

The other general thing I have taken away from BF/Berg compares here on TB is that they are way more alike than different - so just different flavors of good.

That being said, my primary/go-to gigging cab is a CN212 and it is a great cabinet, a joy to play through and it works wonderfully with any amp I have ever thrown on top of it. I also have a NV610 for when I need that slamming sealed cab thing. I am also looking hard at a NV212T. So, I am definitely a very happy Bergantino owner, mine have never let me down.

Ultimately, I'm guessing you can't go wrong with either choice.
good luck

 

[Nickweissmusic]

Bergfaced

 

[Thundar]

well, this is not one of your choices but sounds like it would fit your needs:
The Revsound vertical 410.... pricey, but only 48 lbs
RS410VT | RevSound

 

[Munjibunga]

You also might want to consider one of the Audiokinesis 212 versions. I have the Composite TC212 and it's a the best 212 I've ever owned. Imo worth a look.

For this comment to make sense, you need to list every 212 you've owned.

 

[Doner Designs]

Thanks so far. I didn't post any requirements because I really want to know what you guys think, unfiltered.

As for what I need/want: I'm never really sure what i want, but to paraphrase Supreme Ct Justice Potter Stewart re: pornography: I kind of know it when I hear it.

I want both punchy and deep, with a tight rather than loose, boomy low end. I recently played a used Berg 310, and almost bought it except for the weight of that anchor (is that why they say bass anchors the band?).

I'm in both 80's rock bands and modern blues/r and b bands, which to me is opposite worlds of what is required for bass tone, hence my desire for a new cab; the former needs a healthy amount of non-boomy low end and upper-mid bite while trying to reconcile the disastrous low mids coming forth from those evil Marshall 412s, while the latter needs punchy low mid/upper bass and just generally good tone. I'd like one cab to do it all, and I rather would like something a little on the tall side so I can hear it. I have considered two 210 cabs in a vertical arrangement, but would rather have a one cab solution. Weight needs to be light as I am now an old fart.

I have played through two Bergantino cabs in my entire life, one a 410 and the other the aforementioned 310. I was impressed by both. But the accolades and specs of the Barefaced have me very interested.

My amps:
Mesa D800 w/ 115/112 (great rig just not getting it for these situations, and I want a single cab)
Rumble 500
MarkBass LM3 800
MarkBass F1
Acoustic HD1000
Crown 2000w something or other, to which I may add an Ampeg pre/DI just to see what's up; the amp is awesome

What else would you like to know?

Not sure what Berg 310 you tried, but if you liked it, an HG310 might be worth a look. It will move approximately the same amount of air as a 212 and it only weighs 35 lbs. I have a pair and love them. It will also satisfy your desire for a tight low end because it's a sealed cab. Looks like a 210 because one driver is on the back.

 

[bucephylus]

Berg HDN212 X 10²³

Avocado 's number!

Where are those chips...

 

[bucephylus]

Alex and Jim are the top of the heap. I would probably choose between them based where I was gigging. For example, we will be spending a few months a year in NZ in a few years' time. When that happens, I'll have to assess availability down there. Here in the States, it's Bergantino for me.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Never played a BF cab but I hope to since a friend got one. My solution and experience is with AE 212 and 112. The 112 will cover all small gigs with grace. The 212 kills in every situation that requires mid sized club volume. For the most in your face gigs I use the 212 with the 112 on top.
I also have a Berg EX112 I can mix in if I need 4x12 destruction capacity. Summary, very very happy with Berg. Caveat, I sill want to play BF, and Audiokenisis, and MAS and JGR......

 

[mam1862]

For this comment to make sense, you need to list every 212 you've owned.

That's is fair enough and I should have said when I was deciding on the 212 of my choice the Audiokinesis was the one that sounded the best to me. In doing that I did not have the chance to check out the Berg or BF. My choice was based on checking GC, hitting up some other local musicians I know and the internet. After that I made the choice to have Mike Arnopol build my cab. I apologize for the inaccuracy of my prior statement.

 

[Downunderwonder]

For tighter low end you could use an EQ pedal or HPF3.

One cab both loud and light is askIng a lot. What's wrong with two smallish cabs on a trolley? Carting one smaller cab half the time is quite a benefit to give away.

 

[bdplaid]

For tighter low end you could use an EQ pedal or HPF3.

Thanks, but it's just not that simple. If it were we'd all be using crap behringer rigs and eqing ourselves to greatness.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Thanks, but it's just not that simple. If it were we'd all be using crap behringer rigs and eqing ourselves to greatness.

You need to get more specific on tone. My idea of ''tight low end'' is an absence of low fundamentals and reduced 2nd harmonics. Tailor made solution HPF3 which just about all users describe as ''tightening'' the lows and removing boom. Not following your rejection since that was exactly what you wanted.

 

[mmbongo]

Honestly, I'm just not sure how you're going to beat your dual Mesa Subway cabs with a single cab without it weighing more or being so large that your only option to transport it is a truck.

I'll fix your problem of having too much bottom end with your Subway 115/112 setup right now with one of two options.

1) Get a high pass filter pedal.
2) Trade your D800 (or some of those other amps you have) for a D800+ which has a variable high pass filter built in.

You're going to make a sideways move on cabinets and still have the same problem.

But if you must have a single cab, it's hard to go wrong with a Berg 2x12. You'll still want the HPF though.

 

[mam1862]

Honestly, I'm just not sure how you're going to beat your dual Mesa Subway cabs with a single cab without it weighing more or being so large that your only option to transport it is a truck.

I'll fix your problem of having too much bottom end with your Subway 115/112 setup right now with one of two options.

1) Get a high pass filter pedal.
2) Trade your D800 (or some of those other amps you have) for a D800+ which has a variable high pass filter built in.

You're going to make a sideways move on cabinets and still have the same problem.

But if you must have a single cab, it's hard to go wrong with a Berg 2x12. You'll still want the HPF though.

I will agree with the Mesa D800 as I'm using it now and it's a great head. I would think the plus is equally as good if not better.

 

[Al Kraft]

Despite the CN212's reputation for being a tad less bold in the deep low end, I use a HPF with it quite frequently and have all the defined punch and fullness I need with no unwanted deeper low mud. I like a fair amount of bass and low-mids in my sound, but learned that much of that meaty bass tone I enjoy is actually not the product of super deep/sub lows as I once thought.

 

[mmbongo]

Despite the CN212's reputation for being a tad less bold in the deep low end, I use a HPF with it quite frequently and have all the defined punch and fullness I need with no unwanted deeper low mud. I like a fair amount of bass and low-mids in my sound, but learned that much of that meaty bass tone I enjoy is actually not the product of super deep/sub lows as I once thought.

It was quite a revelation to me as well. With my Mesa Subway cabs I set the HPF to cut everything below 80hz or so but I don't lose any low end...just lose the boominess.

 

[jnewmark]

Despite the CN212's reputation for being a tad less bold in the deep low end, I use a HPF with it quite frequently and have all the defined punch and fullness I need with no unwanted deeper low mud. I like a fair amount of bass and low-mids in my sound, but learned that much of that meaty bass tone I enjoy is actually not the product of super deep/sub lows as I once thought.

Just curious. Where do you set the HPF ?

 

[Downunderwonder]

All this HPF talk made OP's head explode?

 

[bdplaid]

All this HPF talk made OP's head explode?

Not at all, it's good advice and is the first thing I tried. I think my current problem actually has to do with a clash with the guitar player's tone, but beyond that, I really want a higher end cab. see my thread on how to deal with bass tone and 2 Marshalls...

My idea of ''tight low end'' is an absence of low fundamentals and reduced 2nd harmonics.

1) Get a high pass filter pedal.
2) Trade your D800 (or some of those other amps you have) for a D800+ which has a variable high pass filter built in.

I'm with both of you guys. I have a Broughton HPF + LPF, and it doesn't get it done for me as well as an MXR 10-band. No offense to Broughton, lovely stuff. I tried out a D800+ and the HPF in that head is magic; I think it does other stuff than just HPF, because to my ear it sounds different than the Broughton. I just couldn't justify buying the Plus when I have a perfectly as-new D800.

And not saying anything bad about the Mesa. It's a great head, but I am coming to the conclusion that it might not be for me. I find it difficult to dial in exactly what I want. I usually go back to the flat settings, and that's nice, but not quite there...

I've tried the 15 on top and didn't care for it, but that was in another band; I should try it again.

Part of the thing is that the Berg just sounded so darned good; But the website for Barefaced says everything I want to hear. Alex describes exactly what I want, but the proof is in the hearing.

 

[mmbongo]

Not at all, it's good advice and is the first thing I tried. I think my current problem actually has to do with a clash with the guitar player's tone, but beyond that, I really want a higher end cab. see my thread on how to deal with bass tone and 2 Marshalls...





I'm with both of you guys. I have a Broughton HPF + LPF, and it doesn't get it done for me as well as an MXR 10-band. No offense to Broughton, lovely stuff. I tried out a D800+ and the HPF in that head is magic; I think it does other stuff than just HPF, because to my ear it sounds different than the Broughton. I just couldn't justify buying the Plus when I have a perfectly as-new D800.

And not saying anything bad about the Mesa. It's a great head, but I am coming to the conclusion that it might not be for me. I find it difficult to dial in exactly what I want. I usually go back to the flat settings, and that's nice, but not quite there...

I've tried the 15 on top and didn't care for it, but that was in another band; I should try it again.

Part of the thing is that the Berg just sounded so darned good; But the website for Barefaced says everything I want to hear. Alex describes exactly what I want, but the proof is in the hearing.

I'd love to do a head to head with the Subway 115 and a Barefaced 112 to see if the Barefaced really does what they claim.