215 & 215/2x6.5 Driver options for new build.

[Passinwind]

Thank you for the B&C possibility. Looks like a nice driver. Actually, to my uninformed eyes mind you, it looks very similar, almost identical, to the Faital 6FE200 that I'm thinking about. The main exception I see is that the Faital is ~$40 less. Of course, I always reserve the right to miss something(s) & be wrong. On occasion, extra wrong , lol.

Faital didn't even exist as a company back when I bought the B&Cs and the only ones I've heard are the ones in the Baer 112 and the little 4s, both of which are way cool.

Are you looking at the neo B&C or the ceramic one? Haven't priced the B&Cs lately, but mine ran around 75 bucks shipped. There's an OEM EAW version of 6MD38 out there too, but I had to draw the line somewhere...

BTW, the sensitivity spec is pretty deceiving. PM me if you want to see my measurements comparing the 6MD38 to the 6ND410. I'm not going to post them because they are uncalibrated ones done in my living room.

 

[iualum]

I would get it in writing and confirm you got what you paid for, or I would build it myself if this is coming down to a cost issue.

In writing is always an excellent suggestion. Never hurts to be reminded. Thank you for it. May I ask if this was an issue for you at some point w/Ralph or Don?

As for a cost issue, no, with the Faital 6FE200s, it isn't. Although I know the 18Sounds (& some others as well) are super, the main point of a 215/2x6.5 cab is still the 215 part, im(very)ho. But as excellent as the 18Sounds, et al...are, I just can't bring myself to pay an extra ~$300 for them & the needed crossover. On the other hand, two 6FE200s & crossover will add ~$135. Since I'm basically a hack/noodler , I can justify this upcharge with myself. As long as I think the addition is worth it sonically (tone/volume) over what I'd get from a straight 215 using non-LF 3015s. It's still up in the air for me.

 

[iualum]

Faital didn't even exist as a company back when I bought the B&Cs, and the only ones I've heard are the ones in the Baer 112 and the little 4s, both of which are way cool.

Are you looking at the neo B&C or the ceramic one? Haven't priced the B&C lately, but mine ran around 75 bucks shipped. There's an OEM EAW version of 6MD38 out there too, but I had to draw the line somewhere...

BTW, the sensitivity spec is pretty deceiving. PM me if you want to see my measurements comparing the 6MD38 to the 6ND410. I'm not going to post them because they are uncalibrated ones done in my living room.

Looking at the ceramic version, I believe. Info is from US Speaker B&C 6 MD38 is a 6.5" midrange speaker - B&C Speakers - B&C 6.5" midrange speaker for 3 or 4-way sytems. B&C 6MD38 midrange speakers available now. .

Shoot, sure, if you'd PM them to me I'd love to take a gander! Thanks...Matt

 

[CL400Peavey]

In writing is alway an excellent suggestion. Never hurts to be reminded. Thank you for it. May I ask if this was an issue for you at some point w/Ralph or Don?

Not for me, I went with an authorized fEARful builder, but I know some people noticed liberties that LDS took with their requested specs. Cross overs, and cab dimensions were not as desired.

As for a cost issue, no, with the Faital 6FE200s, it isn't. Although I know the 18Sounds (& some others as well) are super, the main point of a 215/2x6.5 cab is still the 215 part, im(very)ho. But as excellent as the 18Sounds, et al...are, I just can't bring myself to pay an extra ~$300 for them & the needed crossover. On the other hand, two 6FE200s & crossover will add ~$135. Since I'm basically a hack/noodler , I can justify this upcharge with myself. As long as I think the addition is worth it sonically (tone/volume) over what I'd get from a straight 215 using non-LF 3015s. It's still up in the air for me.

Yes and no, I encourage you to go try a properly designed and built crossed over cab, be it a Thunderchild, Barefaced Bass, Audiokinesis, or fEARful. The LF portion is important, but those LF drivers get you deeper into the low end range and are not ment to handle the mids. That is where good mid/high frequency drivers shine. You get the 15's to do the lows, as they are designed specifically to, and the 6's to do the upper portion as they are designed to. A cross over is key to making this all happen.


PS where are you located? There may be a cab for you to try out closer than you think.

 

[iualum]

47150 zip, across the Mason-Dixon from Louisville.

 

[CL400Peavey]

47150 zip, across the Mason-Dixon from Louisville.

There is one in Cincinnati, a few in chicago as well as an authorized builder, and Im in MI.

fEARful enclosures map - Google Maps

 

[iualum]

First of all, thanks to everyone for all the input. Very much appreciated.

I mentioned this in an earlier post, but it probably got lost in translation. It has to do with deciding between a straight 215 & a 215/2x6.5

1. 215 using Eminence Kappa Lite 3015s (non-LF).

The 3015's range is 40Hz-4kHz. It's rated at 100.8dB SPL.

2. 215/2x6.5 using 3015LFs & Faital Pro 6FE200s.

The 3015LF' range is 40Hz-1.5kHz. It's rated at 99.8dB SPL.

The 6FE2003's range is 85Hz-6kHz. It's rated at 95dB SPL, but crossed over at ~800Hz should be more like 100 (maybe a bit more?).
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My questions are:

A. Which would you choose (& please don't mention the 18Sound 6ND410 at this point)?

B. Do you think the overall tone/versatility/loudness from the full-range 215 outfitted w/3015s would be close to the 215/2x6.5 with 3015LFs & 6FE200s.

C. And how much difference can be heard/detected between 6kHz & 4kHz? (Just to mention, I'm not much into slapping. Mostly 60s, 70, 80s classic r&r. Play ~2/3 w/pick, 1/3 finger style.)
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O.K., now, lol, what if the 215/2x6.5 used the 18Sound?

 

[rpsands]

Knowing how likely it is you'll get a decent crossover I'll go with option 1.

If you're gonna use a 2x15/2x6.5 with GB's box and crossover, I'd go with that option (since it's the one I went with .

 

[iualum]

Thanks. Understand. Ralf Patterson would do the crossover. Don't know, but I hear he's pretty good. But I guess there's always a chance what I've heard isn't correct. Does that change your choice, or are you still going with the straight 215? Cheers.

Knowing how likely it is you'll get a decent crossover I'll go with option 1.

If you're gonna use a 2x15/2x6.5 with GB's box and crossover, I'd go with that option (since it's the one I went with .

 

[will33]

First of all, thanks to everyone for all the input. Very much appreciated.

I mentioned this in an earlier post, but it probably got lost in translation. It has to do with deciding between a straight 215 & a 215/2x6.5

1. 215 using Eminence Kappa Lite 3015s (non-LF).

The 3015's range is 40Hz-4kHz. It's rated at 100.8dB SPL.

2. 215/2x6.5 using 3015LFs & Faital Pro 6FE200s.

The 3015LF' range is 40Hz-1.5kHz. It's rated at 99.8dB SPL.

The 6FE2003's range is 85Hz-6kHz. It's rated at 95dB SPL, but crossed over at ~800Hz should be more like 100 (maybe a bit more?).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My questions are:

A. Which would you choose (& please don't mention the 18Sound 6ND410 at this point)?

B. Do you think the overall tone/versatility/loudness from the full-range 215 outfitted w/3015s would be close to the 215/2x6.5 with 3015LFs & 6FE200s.

C. And how much difference can be heard/detected between 6kHz & 4kHz? (Just to mention, I'm not much into slapping. Mostly 60s, 70, 80s classic r&r. Play ~2/3 w/pick, 1/3 finger style.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
O.K., now, lol, what if the 215/2x6.5 used the 18Sound?

Look at the actual response charts for each and their sensitivities in the passband you'll be using them in, not the average. For example, you'll want to cut the 3015LF off long before that 1500hz.


FWIW, I'd been looking at that 6md38 as well and might go that way if I can't find that one certain faital I want. The 6FE200 looks nice too, but, I'm looking for something that runs 97-98db above 1khz.

 

[rpsands]

Thanks. Understand. Ralf Patterson would do the crossover. Don't know, but I hear he's pretty good. But I guess there's always a chance what I've heard isn't correct. Does that change your choice, or are you still going with the straight 215? Cheers.

The 6nd410's with 3015LFs are a bit of a known quantity to me. I'd go that route but my second choice would be the 2x15 still.

Ralf's xover and the 6FE200's I've never heard are too much of a gamble. I know I like 3015s.

 

[iualum]

Look at the actual response charts for each and their sensitivities in the passband you'll be using them in, not the average. For example, you'll want to cut the 3015LF off long before that 1500hz.

FWIW, I'd been looking at that 6md38 as well and might go that way if I can't find that one certain faital I want. The 6FE200 looks nice too, but, I'm looking for something that runs 97-98db above 1khz.

On the the crossover with the 3015LF in a 215/2x6.5...what I run across almost exclusively is crossing over at 800Hz.

 

[will33]

On the the crossover with the 3015LF in a 215/2x6.5...what I run across almost exclusively is crossing over at 800Hz.

Exactly. There are a lot of good mids you might gloss over just looking at printed spl numbers. When you see the chart, the part of their passband you'll be using runs hotter, the lesser response lower down brings the average down. Emi.'s alpha6 is a good example of this. They run 95db above 1khz, but look like a 93db driver one might not consider. Not saying use that one, it's an example.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I would go with a built to spec fEARful 1515/66. 130+ spl. Massive lows, present mids, clear highs. Look up my review that I posted a bit ago.

 

[R Baer]

Thanks. Understand. Ralf Patterson would do the crossover. Don't know, but I hear he's pretty good. But I guess there's always a chance what I've heard isn't correct. Does that change your choice, or are you still going with the straight 215? Cheers.

Ralf is a good guy and knows what he's doing. your'e in good hands there.

 

[iualum]

O.K., this is decidedly juvenile, yes, I know.

How much volume difference on tap (providing the same amp is used, let's say a 300 watt tube or 500-800 watt solid state) between a 215 w/full-range 3015s (non-LF) & a 215/2x6.5 w/3015LFs & 18Sound 6NM410s? Little? Significant? Night & day?

Or is it more about available tonal options & "articulation" & "definition?"

 

[will33]

O.K., juvenile, yes, I know.

How much volume difference on tap (providing the same amp is used, let's say a 300 watt tube or 500-800 watt solid state) between a 215 w/full-range 3015s (non-LF) & a 215/2x6.5 w/3015LFs & 18Sound 6NM410s? Little? Significant? Night & day?

Or is it more about available tonal options & "definition?"

Mostly tonal options, "definition", and extended range + off axis sound.

In the range where the 3015(non-LF) is effective, there will be virtually no volume difference. In the deepest lows, the LF's will obviously shine. In the uppermidrange, the 3way will take the cake in terms of things like "detail" and "articulation". The biggest advantage being off axis performance. If you play places where your rig carries the room, don't underestimate what off axis performance can do for you. If tweeters are involved in both cabs, they'll sound pretty much the same above 5khz. If it's a tweeterless design, the 2-way with it's dedicated mids has clear advantages. A plain 215 using 3015's is no slouch at all, but for clarity and dispersion, you can't beat the 2-way.

 

[iualum]

Mostly tonal options, "definition", and extended range + off axis sound.

In the range where the 3015(non-LF) is effective, there will be virtually no volume difference. In the deepest lows, the LF's will obviously shine. In the uppermidrange, the 3way will take the cake in terms of things like "detail" and "articulation". The biggest advantage being off axis performance. If you play places where your rig carries the room, don't underestimate what off axis performance can do for you. If tweeters are involved in both cabs, they'll sound pretty much the same above 5khz. If it's a tweeterless design, the 2-way with it's dedicated mids has clear advantages. A plain 215 using 3015's is no slouch at all, but for clarity and dispersion, you can't beat the 2-way.

Thanks again. Yeah, it will either be a straight 215 or a 2-way 215/2x6.5. I won't put a horn or tweeter in it. Decisions, decisions, decisions, lol. May come down to a simple coin flip.

If it's 3015LFs & mid drivers (whichever ones) in a 215/2x6.5 it'll be a modern sound. Even if it's a straight 215, it'll still be pretty much a modern sound from the non-LF 3015s. They're sure not your father's 15" speakers. Either way, when it comes to cosmetics, it'll be a throw-back, dressed in old-school tweed w/oxblood & gold grill cloth. Whichever configuration, it's gonna look great!

 

[iualum]

Ran across these. Look pretty good on paper. Response to 8kHz, 120 RMS, 99dB SPL.

B&C 6 PEV13 is a 6.5" midrange speaker - B&C Speakers - B&C 6.5" midrange speaker for 3 or 4-way sytems. B&C 6 PEV13 midrange speakers available now. Main downside may be the 0.6 Xmax. Does Xmax really matter much in a 2-way w/mids in a separate box?

I can pick them up for $70. At just slightly more $ than Faital 6FE200s, I think these may now be the front-runner for me as the best lower-cost alternative to the 18Sounds.

Anyone used/heard these 1st hand?

 

[will33]

Ran across these. Look pretty good on paper. Response to 8kHz, 120 RMS, 99dB SPL.

B&C 6 PEV13 is a 6.5" midrange speaker - B&C Speakers - B&C 6.5" midrange speaker for 3 or 4-way sytems. B&C 6 PEV13 midrange speakers available now.

I can pick them up for $70. At just slightly more $ than Faital 6FE200s, I think these may now be the front-runner for me as the best lower-cost alternative to the 18Sounds.

Anyone used/heard these 1st hand?

Having trouble finding the response chart for that one. Forgot about it but now that you bring it up, I remember looking at that one and considering it pretry good as well. Can't remember much details without the chart.


Don't get hung up on having a "modern" sound. They don't have to sound that way if you don't want them to. My go to sound is fairly "vintage" or "old school". My 2 way just sounds like a clearer version of that. Not trebly or zingy at all, unless you dial that in. Hearing all the uppermid detail does take a little getting used, but that stuff's always been in your sound, some speakers just don't give you much of it. Nothing a little knob adjustment won't fix.