2x10 vs 1x12

[jthisdell]

So many variables. It depends on the individual cabs. I have Berg CN cabs and the 112 and 210 are very similar in power handling and sensitivity so they work very well together. The 112 has more low end, the 210 will go just as low if you tweak your eq a bit. So my highly uneducated belief is that hose two factors, power handling and sensitivity are key to making unlike cabs work together, more so than frequency response. The Berg cabs seem designed to work well together, others maybe not.

 

[hennessybass]

So many variables. It depends on the individual cabs. I have Berg CN cabs and the 112 and 210 are very similar in power handling and sensitivity so they work very well together. The 112 has more low end, the 210 will go just as low if you tweak your eq a bit. So my highly uneducated belief is that hose two factors, power handling and sensitivity are key to making unlike cabs work together, more so than frequency response. The Berg cabs seem designed to work well together, others maybe not.

Those CN / HDN (same drivers) 210 cabs are nice. The midrange is very unique - in a good way.

I am a long time Berg 212 user (CN and now HDN). But always use the 210 as my "small cab." Did the 2x210 thing for a while.

I recently got a HDN112 - got a pretty good used price. I figured I could pair it to make a 312 - or pair it with the 210 - or as a stand alone for small stuff.
I've never mixed drivers before. I think at the next gig I'll do the 112+210.

 

[agedhorse]

So many variables. It depends on the individual cabs. I have Berg CN cabs and the 112 and 210 are very similar in power handling and sensitivity so they work very well together. The 112 has more low end, the 210 will go just as low if you tweak your eq a bit. So my highly uneducated belief is that hose two factors, power handling and sensitivity are key to making unlike cabs work together, more so than frequency response. The Berg cabs seem designed to work well together, others maybe not.

Those are two of the parameters, but there are also others that help to make combinations of speakers work well together. Specifically phase response.

 

[TommyLuptak]

Those CN / HDN (same drivers) 210 cabs are nice. The midrange is very unique - in a good way.

I am a long time Berg 212 user (CN and now HDN). But always use the 210 as my "small cab." Did the 2x210 thing for a while.

I recently got a HDN112 - got a pretty good used price. I figured I could pair it to make a 312 - or pair it with the 210 - or as a stand alone for small stuff.
I've never mixed drivers before. I think at the next gig I'll do the 112+210.

Berg against the GK 212’s setup. Hmm

 

[TommyLuptak]

I’m really looking hard at the GK 212 Neo IV

 

[hennessybass]

I’m really looking hard at the GK 212 Neo IV

I think @DaveDeVille uses that cab.
He’s got a bunch of cool gear, but he seems to go to that GK 212 pretty often - at least on the “rig of choice thread”

 

[TommyLuptak]

Ok….. wow!!!!
I’ve done this before in a pinch and never had the chance to EQ it, so it was a lot of bottom and not a lot of clarity.
2 JBL SRX812p (crown powered 2000w 1500w nominal) and I used an XR18 mixer.

But today I wanted to see if I could run out of my DI (Two Notes Le Bass) direct into this powered JBL SRX812P. OMG. I’m still on “Line”. Not the Consumer nor Mic setting that will boost your input gain by a lot. I had it up really loud. Like really loud!!! My bass is the Ibanez MS1005 with Nord Zen Blades and the stock Ibanez preamp, so I get plenty of preamp gain. I maxed my 20db gain on my bass and started pushing the Bass knob up on the Le Bass pedal. Wow so loud and no farting out with a huge SPL. The JBL SRX812P has a 3” voice coil and long excursion.
I attached the spec sheet. These were my mains then I got the SRX835p and these turned into backups. I was looking at changing some backline I have incase I’m in a position to sit in and IEMs are not an option. Doubt I’d have to bring 2 of the JBL SRX812p. They are small but not light. 50lbs but powered. All wood box. I’d say fairly compact too. If you get a change, try it!!! No need to look any further. Wow $1669 new but I’ve seen open box for $1100-1300.

https://jblpro.com/en-US/site_elements/srx812p-spec-sheet

 

[DaveDeVille]

I think @DaveDeVille uses that cab.
He’s got a bunch of cool gear, but he seems to go to that GK 212 pretty often - at least on the “rig of choice thread”

... thanks !! and yes , i have other cabs that i use , but the G-K NEO212 is my favorite .
i've used it on many stages , and it always sounds great with any amp i've used ...

 

[4StringDave]

I find my Markbass 1x12 sounds middly and lacking in bass on it's own in my house, but sounds fantastic on stage, with none of the boomy lows I've experienced with other amps

 

[pepj]

The 210 cab I currently gig with cannot be covered by a 112.
Fortunatel I have 2x112 cabs that weigh 11kgs each.

 

[agedhorse]

Ok….. wow!!!!
I’ve done this before in a pinch and never had the chance to EQ it, so it was a lot of bottom and not a lot of clarity.
2 JBL SRX812p (crown powered 2000w 1500w nominal) and I used an XR18 mixer.

So let's first set the record straight on power... the 2000 watt peak system power is actually 2 x 750 watts RMS split between the low and high frequency elements. Since the high frequency element's power contribution doesn't really apply for bass guitar applications and because it's internally limited to ~100 watts RMS, comparisons must be taken with a grain of salt because most (quality) bass amps are rated using RMS (not peak) metrics.

The 750 watts RMS on the 12" driver is also heavily processed with both HPF's and limiting, and both of these parameters may also be dynamic (varied based on the signal itself) in this series.

It's a very good speaker but using 2000 watts as a comparison with other bass amps is disingenuous.

 

[TommyLuptak]

So let's first set the record straight on power... the 2000 watt peak system power is actually 2 x 750 watts RMS split between the low and high frequency elements. Since the high frequency element's power contribution doesn't really apply for bass guitar applications and because it's internally limited to ~100 watts RMS, comparisons must be taken with a grain of salt because most (quality) bass amps are rated using RMS (not peak) metrics.

The 750 watts RMS on the 12" driver is also heavily processed with both HPF's and limiting, and both of these parameters may also be dynamic (varied based on the signal itself) in this series.

It's a very good speaker but using 2000 watts as a comparison with other bass amps is disingenuous.

Now I feel bad that I didn’t do my homework, I just went off the JBL spec sheet of 1500 continuous 2000 watts peak.
136db max. Nonetheless this blows away my friends new DarkGlass 410 with 210 and the micro tubes 900 v2. The 410 is 103db. Not sure if the 210 will add much. But I’m saying that this one JBL SRX812P is a monster.

 

[agedhorse]

My post from your other thread...
===
It's a very good speaker for sure, just wanted to reinforce the difference between marketing numbers and non-marketing numbers... for example the DarkGlass amp is about 1800 watts peak if you want to compare with the same metrics.

That's exactly why manufacturers have started using peak metrics, it looks "better" even though it's just a different way of expressing exactly the same value.

 

[Raf Seibert]

There are 112’s that outperform 210’s and 210’s that outperform 112’s.

It depends very much on the particular cabinet and the intent of the designer.

There are, I don’t know how many, makers of the drivers most often used for bass amplification. Thus, I always am. Concerned when I see discussions of “210 vs 112 vs 115 vs 212 vs 118, or what have you. If you don’t specify who’s 10, 12, 15, 18, it’s hard to say. You really can’t generalize just based on speaker sizes. A Rumble 112 is not going to sound the same as a Mesa 112. I’m not saying better, or worse, just that you can’t make broad generalizations based on size alone.

“212 beats 410 every time,” is a statement that cannot be true in every, or perhaps in any, instance, much less apply to everyone’s taste.

 

[TommyLuptak]

Consider the JBL SRX812P. I go out of my Two Notes Le Bass DI directly to the back of the 12 that is powered via crown. 136db. Holds the Bb on my fiver at enormous volume and no farting out. My friend just got the new Darkglass 410 and 210 stack with the 900w microtubes V2 and it’s 103db. This SRX812p is hands down a better choice imho. And if I add my SRX818sp under it, Guitar players will cry.

 

[agedhorse]

Consider the JBL SRX812P. I go out of my Two Notes Le Bass DI directly to the back of the 12 that is powered via crown. 136db. Holds the Bb on my fiver at enormous volume and no farting out. My friend just got the new Darkglass 410 and 210 stack with the 900w microtubes V2 and it’s 103db. This SRX812p is hands down a better choice imho. And if I add my SRX818sp under it, Guitar players will cry.

You are completely misunderstanding the sensitivity numbers.

The 103dB is at 1W yet the 136dB is maximum SPL at some definition of maximum rated power.

 

[TommyLuptak]

You are completely misunderstanding the sensitivity numbers.

The 103dB is at 1W yet the 136dB is maximum SPL at some definition of maximum rated power.

Dang! I wasn’t comparing apples to apples again. Nonetheless, I’ve tried that Darkglass combo and my SRX812p. I’d still take the SRX812p. I have 2 of them that I’m not using at the moment and I believe if I stack them with the horns next to other (1 cabinet upright and the other upside down on top) coupling the horns would be an enormously loud and full sound.
2 at open box prices would be $2200-$2600.
About half the price of the Darkglass.
Darkglass manual says: “more than 115db”
Also has a high THD at 20% at max volume 1khz
I cannot find a THD on the SRX812p although JBL says very low THD at high spl’s.

 

[agedhorse]

Dang! I wasn’t comparing apples to apples again. Nonetheless, I’ve tried that Darkglass combo and my SRX812p. I’d still take the SRX812p. I have 2 of them that I’m not using at the moment and I believe if I stack them with the horns next to other (1 cabinet upright and the other upside down on top) coupling the horns would be an enormously loud and full sound.
2 at open box prices would be $2200-$2600.
About half the price of the Darkglass.
Darkglass manual says: “more than 115db”
Also has a high THD at 20% at max volume 1khz
I cannot find a THD on the SRX812p although JBL says very low THD at high spl’s.

You are misunderstanding WHY the THD is stated that high on the DarkGlass amps.

Their signature tone is very much based on an intentional amount of harmonics generating distortion that’s generated in large part outside the power amp itself.

If you look at the DarkGlass product family, and those players who gravitate towards their products, you would understand that the THD number is an essential element.

With this fixation on THD numbers in modern amps that provide them, players are completely missing the fact that their favorite tube power amp based amps typically have >10% THD at rated power.

 

[Wettonized]

I know this is a slightly old thread, but. Just picked up
a Markbass 112 pure combo (300/500). Sounds great. I have an ampeg svt 210av
on hand and hooked it up. Sounds pretty sweet in apt. Gonna play it out soon...
Of course, wondering if I need to go markbass 121 ext.? Any experience or suggestions?

 

[pepj]

Fan of 112 cabs paired up.
Not a fan so much of MB generally but if you like the combo, I'd be looking at the matched 112 for an extention.