2x12" - convert from 8Ohm to 4Ohm for more power?

[bennythehenny]

Hello!

I have a Aguilar DB212 8Ohm which I use with an Aguilar AG500SC. The amp delivers 500W@4Ohm, so I'm thinking about converting the cab to 4Ohm by replacing the speakers.

The original Aguilar replacement speakers cost 140USD/piece, so the upgrade would cost about 280USD minus whatever I might get for my used (but rather new) speakers.

Do you think I would be worth it?

Thank you!

 

[Rumbledore]

hmmm, no. how about putting your $280 toward another DB212 cab?

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Almost $300 to gain 3db at best.

Nope

 

[Jazz Ad]

There is no valid reason to do this and nothing to gain out if it.
If you have volume issues, get a more powerful amp or a 2nd cab.

 

[Munjibunga]

Hello!

I have a Aguilar DB212 8Ohm which I use with an Aguilar AG500SC. The amp delivers 500W@4Ohm, so I'm thinking about converting the cab to 4Ohm by replacing the speakers.

The original Aguilar replacement speakers cost 140USD/piece, so the upgrade would cost about 280USD minus whatever I might get for my used (but rather new) speakers.

Do you think I would be worth it?

Thank you!

$280 for 3 dB? No.

 

[BadExample]

The volume output will not double doing this. It will just go one notch louder, then you loose the ability to add another identical 8 ohm cab. 2nd cab goes up about two notches, maybe a bit more. I say not worth it. My 2 cents...

 

[bennythehenny]

Thank you all!

 

[mmbongo]

Better off upgrading your amp. Take the money you would have spent on speakers, sell the Aguilar and add that money to it and you can get a Mesa Subway D800 which will deliver all the power those speakers can handle.

 

[Rick James]

Almost $300 to gain 3db at best.

That assumes the Aggy can take 500w. It can't. It may be thermally rated for 600w, but it uses a driver similar to the Delta Pro 12-450, which has a mechanical limit at 150w in the 60-80 hz band where excursion demands are highest. A more powerful amp won't make any difference either, for the same reason. Adding a second DB212 is the right move, and he can probably find a used for less than the cost of replacement drivers.

 

[bennythehenny]

That's interesting. Could you point me to a source that explains the physics of the mechanical limit of 150W@60-80Hz? I understand the point and it makes perfect sense to me, would just like to read further about it.

Unfortunately, Aguilar cabs are really expensive in Europe, even used (if you happen to find a used one).

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Hey Benny!
Got nuthin for ya.
Just a welcome howdy.

 

[joebar]

What are the ohms of the speakers?
If they’re 8 ohms currently wired in series, you could wire it in parallel for 4 ohms, no?

 

[DWBass]

What are the ohms of the speakers?
If they’re 8 ohms currently wired in series, you could wire it in parallel for 4 ohms, no?

Nope.

OP, if you want to be louder, get another cabinet. No need to spend that much money for an iota and barely noticeable bit of loudness.

 

[chris_b]

A second cab will make you significantly louder on stage and out in the room.

 

[HolmeBass]

What are the ohms of the speakers?
If they’re 8 ohms currently wired in series, you could wire it in parallel for 4 ohms, no?

No.

It is either two 16 ohm speakers in parallel for 8, or two 4 ohm in series for 8. So re-wiring the current speakers would give 32 or 2 ohms.

 

[DigitalMan]

Unless your volume is dimed, just turn it up a wee bit more.

 

[two fingers]

Thank you all!

Hey WELCOME to TalkBass!!!!!

Please stick around. I think several posters here may not have realized this was your first post.

There are a lot of misconceptions out there. (I was victim to many of them before came here and learned a TON.)

What they are trying to say (and could have said a bit more nicely *cough*) was this.

Want more volume? In most cases more speaker will take you a lot further than more watts. It takes a TON more wattage to move the ball volume wise. And, generally, by the time you increase the power enough to make a huge difference, you have gone beyond what your speakers can handle anyway.

So, if you want to take full advantage of your really nice head, get another 8 ohm cab just like the one you have. Not only will you take advantage of all the watts, but you'll have twice the speaker surface area to move more air (perceived as "louder".)

Hope that helps in a little more detail.

Stick around. There are more mysteries to unlock here.

(There is this magic stuff called "tort" that sparks outrage in some, but causes feelings of passion and warmth in others..... and mostly only works on bass players. )

 

[Rick James]

Could you point me to a source that explains the physics of the mechanical limit of 150W@60-80Hz? I understand the point and it makes perfect sense to me, would just like to read further about it.

It's a bit beyond the scope of a forum post. But you can see it in the charts for the Delta Pro 12-450.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

All of the cab designs have a chart for maximum input power. You can see how it drops like a cliff in the lows, where the cone runs out of excursion. There's a chart for excursion/displacement too, and you can see how that goes up as frequency goes down. It's safe to use as much power as it takes to reach xmax, but anything more than that doesn't give more volume, it just creates more heat in the voice coil, and that eventually causes driver failure. If you manage to hit xmech driver failure isn't eventual, it's instantaneous.

 

[1bassplayinfool]

Welcome to the circus... More speakers will move more air. Get a 2nd cab my .02

 

[The Nameless]

I see it from another perspective. Folk talk bout 9v onboard preamps vs 18v. While it is not always the case? You get more "headroom" running 18v. Bout 3dB. About double the power. To get 3dB more output, you have to double power. Conversely, if you go to four ohm, it gets you 3dB more output. In other words, makes your amp sound, act, twice as powerful. For instance? I see it like this... I'm on a stage. The volume requirements are a certain dB level. I can reach that dB level with a myriad of amps, power levels, etc. Crank a 100w amp, or barely turn up a 1000w amp. I can crank 250w. Or turn up a 500w amp to a reasonable level, to achieve the same output. Maybe "louder" isn't your goal. Maybe the feel of the amp on a stage is less than you desire. Well? I can tell you from experience that my amps at 8 and 4 ohm operation feel very different. I don't need more volume .I want my amp to run at it's most efficient. Get the dB I need, at the lowest possible settings. And the lowest possible load in/out. If a single cab is all ya wanna carry, and you realize potential volume isn't the only factor in seeking tone, a 4 ohm cab has huge benefits. If volume is yer desire? Adding cabs is more efficient. A more visceral change. But if ya want to achieve the same volume and not push yer amp as hard? The 4 ohm solution most certainly is viable. And the subtle differences may slip by some players. But like 18v preamps, sometimes 3dB extra is just what a doctor ordered. For me? In a single cab world? 4 ohm is where it's at. More a feel thing than apparent volume.