2X12 - What would you do

[jerrod]

GK NEO cabs sound great when you run a full GK rig. Any one of them.

They don't sound so great with other amps, IMHO. I have no experience with a Bergantino and little with the Mesa, so I can't give you any good advice there.

One exception I've found is the Mesa Carbines with the GK Neo 12" loaded cabs. The Carbines and GK MB's are very similarly voiced to my ear and I suspect that's why it works so well for me.

That is too funny Al. I was going to take exception with Catbuster's post as well. I have a Mesa Carbine and two GK Neo 212's and I love the setup. I imagine they would sound great with most amps when everything is eq'd properly. I play heavy rock tuned at C mostly. For the price to performance ratio the GK's are very hard to beat.

 

[IconBasser]

Hoestly OP, is Berg is on your radar along with GK, you should really just get the Berg. It really is that much better than the mass produced stuff. You'll come away disappointed if you don't.

I'm going to agree that if you're looking to test a bunch of gear and compare them all, you should also give Genz Benz 212's a shot. I've played through both Berg and Genz (I own Genz Benz gear), and while they do sound a bit different, they both sound fantastic.

If, on the other hand, you're looking to buy something sight unseen and get the best value for your dollar, I really recommend just ponying up the extra bit of cash for a Berg. I don't think it's allowed by the laws of physics in this universe of ours for anybody to be disappointed by them, and you'll never have to deal with that nagging voice in the back of your head saying "yeah, this gear is ok, but what if...?" because you'll already have pretty much the best gear on the market.

 

[gguillo]

I've got a Markbass NY122 I've been using for almost 5 years for my smaller club gigs.

As far as weight (40 lbs), tone, portability, volume, wattage, and overall sound... It's the best 2x12 cab I've ever played through.

My second choice would be a Mesa Standard Powerhouse 2x12, which is also KILLER! However, the 78 lbs is a little too heavy for me now.

 

[Al Kraft]

That is too funny Al. I was going to take exception with Catbuster's post as well. I have a Mesa Carbine and two GK Neo 212's and I love the setup. I imagine they would sound great with most amps when everything is eq'd properly. I play heavy rock tuned at C mostly. For the price to performance ration the GK's are very hard to beat.

Jerrod I think many of us who have found a happy place in the Mesa Carbine and GK MB/Neo tonal territory will hear lot similarities in that gear. Further, at least in our cases, it's obvious that mixing cabs and heads offers some very nice sounds that are as good or better than what can be achieved with straight brand to brand matching.

In support of what Catbuster said though, I do think the GK heads and GK cabs are a very complementary combo, as is the case with Mesa heads/cabs IME. And as much as I like the Aguilar TH500 (especially with the CN212), I haven't found the TH500 and the GK Neo cabs to be a great combination for me - it's okay, but not a favorite.

 

[bdplaid]

What about the other TCE 2x12 cab, the RS212 ? Curious about that myself.

 

[3rdcurve]

You may also consider Audio Kinesis Hathor 1505 or Mike Arnopol Soundworks MAS112. I have been through lots of cabs, including Bergs, Baers, Genz, and these two options are tops.

 

[thirtyhz]

You may also consider Audio Kinesis Hathor 1505 or Mike Arnopol Soundworks MAS112. I have been through lots of cabs, including Bergs, Baers, Genz, and these two options are tops.

Ok I'll bite. Barring some outrageous used deal or black Friday special I was leanining heavily towards building a fEARful (I bought myself more time and also have cabinet making skills). BUT I find the above intruguing, could you elaborate on your experience with those cabs? Thanks!

 

[3rdcurve]

The Hathor will be the least expensive between AK,MAS, Berg. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Bergantino. Jim makes the best standard woofer/tweet cabs on the market. That being said, there are some boutique builders that have raised the bar in performance through excellent engineering. They designed their cabs not for mass production, but to deliver the best performance possible on the gig. I found overall Max SPL to be close between the 3, with an edge to the MAS.

The Hathor 1505 is the the big brother to the 1203(another cab worth looking into - and now also the 2x12 version). It is fairly compact, and very lightweight for a 15(mid 30s i believe). It has a 5" mid driver in special slotted enclosure that provides excellent off axis performance. The 15 is Kappalite variant of Dukes design. I owned a couple cabs with the Faital Pro 15PR400 which is highly regarded. Dukes 15 kills it. It also has the options of switched mid range voicing, and 4/8 ohm switched operation. It is a fantastic cab that will cover any gig a 2x12 or 410 will.

The MAS 112 is what I currently run. It is my 4th MAS cab and my second 112. The current version with the custom kappalite 12 and 4- 4" mids is Mikes best all around electric bass cab in my eyes. Punch, clarity, warmth, its all there. I only play four stringers, but Drop D with this cab is ridiculous. Honestly, I have yet to find this cabs limit. It gets LOUD! What really makes these cabs special, is how they perform in a band mix. Everyone can hear you better, and it meshes in the mix without having to cut/punch through. Check them out.

 

[thirtyhz]

Thanks 3rdcurve. I just unloaded an SVT 410HLF Heritage because I found it inherently boomy and lacking definition. But it did allow me to compete with keys/guitar/drums (with the drums often in the PA but NOT the bass!) We're not very loud but the cab I use needs to compete in these scenarios. Do you think the MAS 112 is suitable for that?

 

[MarkA]

Thanks 3rdcurve. I just unloaded an SVT 410HLF Heritage because I found it inherently boomy and lacking definition. But it did allow me to compete with keys/guitar/drums (with the drums often in the PA but NOT the bass!) We're not very loud but the cab I use needs to compete in these scenarios. Do you think the MAS 112 is suitable for that?

I've played some very loud gigs with my MAS 112 and never found it wanting in volume, clarity, or articulation. I've always been able to hear myself and been heard. I think it will compete with any "super" 2x12 out there in terms of max output, and I'd feel comfortable covering any gig with mine that I'd cover with a decent 410. The low register of the MAS 112 is the opposite of boomy and undefined. (Though I'm no Ampeg expert, I've played through a few 410 HLFs and some seem better than others in that regard - I found out later that there is more than one model, but I never knew which I was playing at the time, only that some seemed more clear and better behaved than others. The right amp can also help keep those woofers under control and tighten up the low end response. My GBE 1200 is good in this regard).

I've played the version of the 112 that 3rdcurve has and liked it lots. The one I own uses a different woofer (18Sound vs. a custom Eminence). In addition to some voicing differences, the Eminence version is more efficient (by a couple of dB, I think). Your SVT 7 Pro would be plenty to drive either cabinet, but I wouldn't try to cover a loud with mine (at 8 Ohms) with your typical 500-Watts-@-4Ohms micro, whereas I think you'd be okay doing that with the Eminence version.

 

[3rdcurve]

I think the MAS 112 will do what you need. Also, if memory serves correctly the Eminence is 4 ohms. I am running a Reidmar 750 and have more than enough power.

 

[bdplaid]

But didn't the OP say he needs something on the inexpensive side, and quickly?

 

[thirtyhz]

But didn't the OP say he needs something on the inexpensive side, and quickly?

Bought myself some more time with a borrowed cab. More time also allows for more money. This has been VERY enlightening in that I had no awareness of these more obscure cabs. Barring some outrageous deal, at this point Im leaning towards MAS or a fEARful build. This has been really helpful and I sincerely thank all of you for your very valuable input.

 

[Alexander]

Ampeg 212Av has become my favorite cab - as much as I love my Bergantinos, I like the tone of these better. Quite a bit less expensive too.

 

[bdplaid]

Bought myself some more time with a borrowed cab. More time also allows for more money. This has been VERY enlightening in that I had no awareness of these more obscure cabs. Barring some outrageous deal, at this point Im leaning towards MAS or a fEARful build. This has been really helpful and I sincerely thank all of you for your very valuable input.

If you've got more money and are looking in that league, DO look at barefaced and check with the clubs on TB about them. They're supposed to be the shizz.

 

[thirtyhz]

Ampeg 212Av has become my favorite cab - as much as I love my Bergantinos, I like the tone of these better. Quite a bit less expensive too.

Thanks for the input, but he cab is 4 ohms with only a parallel connecter which means i couldnt add a 15 etc unless I got an amp that can handle 2ohms.

 

[thirtyhz]

If you've got more money and are looking in that league, DO look at barefaced and check with the clubs on TB about them. They're supposed to be the shizz.

Well Im a sucker for the unconventional when it represents progress. Thus my current focus on the MAS112. But I find the Barefaced engineering intriquing as well so more to investigate. Guess I should change this thread to "If you could have any cab..." Once again thank you all for your most vauable input! I am by no stretch new at this but have swam mostly in the conventional comercial waters with marginal results, so...

 

[bdplaid]

Well Im a sucker for the unconventional when it represents progress. Thus my current focus on the MAS112. But I find the Barefaced engineering intriquing as well so more to investigate. Guess I should change this thread to "If you could have any cab..." Once again thank you all for your most vauable input! I am by no stretch new at this but have swam mostly in the conventional comercial waters with marginal results, so...

To me, that horn loaded stuff is kind of old news. No offense intended, and I believe all the glowing comments about the sound, but I recall in the 70's a plethora of varying horn loaded, isobaric, and other unconventional designs that went the way of the dodo because of impracticality. They all had advantages and disadvantages, one disadvantage being size and weight. Imagine a single 18" folded horn cab the size of an SVT, but with a single speaker. Acoustic made that one. Speakers firing backwards, forwards, at various angles, into horns, into each other, yadda yadda. In the end, it didn't make that big a difference and a well-designed conventional cab takes the day. Note that the SVT is, in many ways, still the cab to beat.

In 2016, the advances in speaker design and construction, lightweight materials, enclosure design and stiffening using bracing adapted from the aircraft industry, I think this overshadows all the more unconventional designs. I had a very unconventional Schroeder 1512 that was about the same size as my Mesa Subway 115, and the Mesa beats it in every regard, hands down, by a lot; Where the Schroeder had essentially nothing in the low end, the Mesa effortlessly pumps it out. Better design and materials wins every time.

I'm looking for the smallest and lightest I can get while retaining the sound i want. For my money, Mesa Subway and barefaced do that. But I don't like the Subway 112...

 

[DukeLeJeune]

One of my cabs was mentioned in posts 46 and 48, and I appreciate the mention but it's not a 212, so it's not what I'd have suggested.

Thanks for the input, but the cab is 4 ohms with only a parallel connecter which means i couldnt add a 15 etc unless I got an amp that can handle 2ohms.

This post makes it sound like you're looking for an 8-ohm 212 (or 212-equivalent, such as the MAS 112). Is that the case?

 

[MarkA]

To me, that horn loaded stuff is kind of old news. No offense intended, and I believe all the glowing comments about the sound, but I recall in the 70's a plethora of varying horn loaded, isobaric, and other unconventional designs that went the way of the dodo because of impracticality. They all had advantages and disadvantages, one disadvantage being size and weight. Imagine a single 18" folded horn cab the size of an SVT, but with a single speaker. Acoustic made that one. Speakers firing backwards, forwards, at various angles, into horns, into each other, yadda yadda. In the end, it didn't make that big a difference and a well-designed conventional cab takes the day. Note that the SVT is, in many ways, still the cab to beat.

In 2016, the advances in speaker design and construction, lightweight materials, enclosure design and stiffening using bracing adapted from the aircraft industry, I think this overshadows all the more unconventional designs. I had a very unconventional Schroeder 1512 that was about the same size as my Mesa Subway 115, and the Mesa beats it in every regard, hands down, by a lot; Where the Schroeder had essentially nothing in the low end, the Mesa effortlessly pumps it out. Better design and materials wins every time.

I'm looking for the smallest and lightest I can get while retaining the sound i want. For my money, Mesa Subway and barefaced do that. But I don't like the Subway 112...

The MAS stuff isn't a classic "horn loaded" design, if you're referring to that. The MAS cabs are bigger for a given woofer count than conventional ported cabs, but not necessarily so for their output. My MAS 112 only has one 12" woofer (and four mids and a tweeter) while being the size and weight of a vertical 2x12 (about 50 pounds, narrow, and about 32" tall, I think), but it goes as loud as any 2x12" I've played and has a more visceral kick in the low end than any 2x12 I've played. For all practical purposes, it's a top-tier 2x12 cab (though granted there are some 2x12s that are smaller and lighter, yet). It replaced my previous 2x12 a couple of years ago and has made life onstage easier for me since, primarily because I can hear myself better now than I ever could before. If you're going to grant that advances have been made with conventional designs since the 70s, allow that they might have been made with other approaches, too.

Please note that I don't hate SVTs or conventionally designed cabs. I have a little 1x10 (the DIY 110 that Duke generously posted here some time ago, but with a Deltalite II) that I've been taking along when I visit my folks and jam with my brother. It doesn't go as low as my MAS cab or have the same dispersion or effortless articulation, but it is a surprisingly clear and punchy little cab and, with my Kustom KXB 500, colors the sound in a pleasingly old-school, very P-bass friendly way. I've been enjoying it immensely. I've heard some glorious sounds out of 810s at punk shows that I don't know that I could well replicate with my 112 and GBE 1200 or Glock amps, but the same holds the other way.

As for sound, you might prefer (or context might suggest) one voicing or another, just as someone might prefer a P-bass over an MTD. In certain contexts, I prefer the sound of the little 110 over my 112. The 112, for me, though, is the best all-round live-performance cab I've owned so far.

This isn't a dis on any other stuff (I can think of three guys off the top of my head whose designs I'd like to try someday) and it's certainly not to say that you have to like or even consider what I dig, but, in my use, I don't see any of the disadvantages you mention.