• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass 3/4 vs 4/4 gauges- is there a difference?

gnergaard

gnergaard

May 31, 2002
1,152
215
Chicago, IL USA
www.therightnow.com
#1
I feel embarrased to ask such a newbie question, but I really don't know:
What is the difference between strings that are marked "3/4ths" vs. those marked "4/4ths"?

Particularly, I've noticed that various Thomastic Spirochores I've bought have been marked for 3/4 ths and 4/4ths. Of course the silks are a differenent length to accomodate a longer or shorter scale (string length) but I'm wondering if there are any other differences. Do manufacturers try to change the mass or diameter of the string so that the string tension is consistant with the respective string lengths?
Background to this question is that I'm finally ready to move on from floppy Spiro Weichs but found the Mittels too stiff. I noticed that the old Weichs I was using were marked 3/4th scale and my bass is just shy of 44" from bridge to nut. The strings still fit with regards to the silk windings. Thinking about Dominants but wary of getting strings that are stiffer (more tension) than I can handle. Wondering if getting 4/4ths as opposed to 3/4ths sets will change the tension of the strings on my bass. Please advise.
Oh, and to all of you neandrathals that manage to play on Starks or something: You are nuts. Stop hurting yourselves. My goodness, I get tired enough with Weichs!
Thanks in advance for the advice, TBers.
 
#4
Right! So I'm just guessing that there's more mass in the shorter 3/4ths string. Hopefully I have physics correct here.
Anyway, should I try a 4/4ths length set of Spiro mittles? Will that actually give me less tension than the 3/4ths mittles?
My other choice is to try the Dominants- do they even come in a 4/4ths string length?
Where's a Tomastik sales rep when you need one, anyway? :help:
 
#5
gnergaard said:
Right! So I'm just guessing that there's more mass in the shorter 3/4ths string. Hopefully I have physics correct here.
Click to expand...
Yes!
Anyway, should I try a 4/4ths length set of Spiro mittles? Will that actually give me less tension than the 3/4ths mittles?
Click to expand...
Yes! But not that much less.
My other choice is to try the Dominants- do they even come in a 4/4ths string length?
Click to expand...
No, they don't.
You can check Thomastik website for available bass products:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#9
I have an acoustic 4/4 (109 cm scale) and a 3/4 EUB (105cm scale) and can compare the Spiro Weich (E and A on both instruments in 4/4 and 3/4). I even feel the 4/4 string is softer in tension. The reason for this might be that 109 cm is rather 7/8 than 4/4, so for a longer 4/4 scale they might be closer in tension.

Thomastik is the only manufacturer (I know of) who makes different string constructions for 3/4 strings and 4/4 strings. That means that the mass on the same length of string for a 4/4 and a 3/4 string is different. (Lower for 4/4 strings.)
Other manufacturers might make longer (or shorter) strings too, but they are just longer (or shorter) with the same construction, so on a longer scale they need more tension to get to the same pitch.
The problem with a lot of 4/4 basses is that the 3/4 strings may be too short, at least with the five-stringers with the additional peg on top of the others (like mine).
So the Thomastik 4/4 strings have less mass on the same string length than the Thomastik 3/4 strings. (At least the Spiros do.)

Using Thomastik 4/4 strings on a 3/4 scale bass have less tension than the Thomastik 3/4 strings from the same string family. You can simulate it by tuning your 3/4 Thomastik strings about a quarter to a half tone lower. About the difference of Mittel and Weich for the same scale ,but with a sound closer to the 3/4 string than the other tension family.
If the tension is still to high for you, get 3/4 Solo strings and tune them to orchestra tuning. I think neither of these procedures is recommended by Thomastik, but you can try and many people like downtuned Solo Spiros.
4/4 Solos would not be what you want, they are much more floppy than 3/4 Weich. Get 4/4 Mittels or 3/4 Solos (which do have less tension than 3/4 Weich but not as low as 4/4 Solo).
You might want to cut 4/4 strings a bit for a 3/4 bass, no problem as long as you still keep about 8 cm (3 inchs) of silk wrapped at the end of the string (but don't sell these strings to 4/4 bass players, they may get angry).
 
#10
DoubleMIDI said:
I have an acoustic 4/4 (109 cm scale) and a 3/4 EUB (105cm scale) and can compare the Spiro Weich (E and A on both instruments in 4/4 and 3/4). I even feel the 4/4 string is softer in tension. The reason for this might be that 109 cm is rather 7/8 than 4/4, so for a longer 4/4 scale they might be closer in tension.

Thomastik is the only manufacturer (I know of) who makes different string constructions for 3/4 strings and 4/4 strings. That means that the mass on the same length of string for a 4/4 and a 3/4 string is different. (Lower for 4/4 strings.)
Other manufacturers might make longer (or shorter) strings too, but they are just longer (or shorter) with the same construction, so on a longer scale they need more tension to get to the same pitch.
The problem with a lot of 4/4 basses is that the 3/4 strings may be too short, at least with the five-stringers with the additional peg on top of the others (like mine).
So the Thomastik 4/4 strings have less mass on the same string length than the Thomastik 3/4 strings. (At least the Spiros do.)

Using Thomastik 4/4 strings on a 3/4 scale bass have less tension than the Thomastik 3/4 strings from the same string family. You can simulate it by tuning your 3/4 Thomastik strings about a quarter to a half tone lower. About the difference of Mittel and Weich for the same scale ,but with a sound closer to the 3/4 string than the other tension family.
If the tension is still to high for you, get 3/4 Solo strings and tune them to orchestra tuning. I think neither of these procedures is recommended by Thomastik, but you can try and many people like downtuned Solo Spiros.
4/4 Solos would not be what you want, they are much more floppy than 3/4 Weich. Get 4/4 Mittels or 3/4 Solos (which do have less tension than 3/4 Weich but not as low as 4/4 Solo).
You might want to cut 4/4 strings a bit for a 3/4 bass, no problem as long as you still keep about 8 cm (3 inchs) of silk wrapped at the end of the string (but don't sell these strings to 4/4 bass players, they may get angry).
Click to expand...

ok, thanks very much for your answer. I sent a mail to thomann and asked them to replace to 3/4, but i'm not sure it's possible because they don't have those separate (i'm only buying E&A/F#&B) and neither any of the weichs. I really really hope they can separate a set anyway! If none is possible, i think i go for the 4/4 anyway and raise the action, because i have mittels E&A (since three days) with obligatos on top and they are absolutely killing my hands and choking my bass.
 
#11
Here's a chart that I made up some time ago for comparative tensions if all the Spiro sets were strung on the same mensure 3/4 bass at orchestra pitch:
iiipopes said:
With all the TI Spiros sets, TI has, of course, put them all in a pdf so we can compare tension and length specs.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
But, each tension, of course, is for its particular original application: S42 for 4/4 110cm scale, 3885 for 3/4 106 cm, etc. So to get a true comparison, I downloaded the chart, did the math, and came up with the comparative tensions if each were installed on a 106cm, 41.73" scale bass. I didn't do the 1/2 sets or the 1/4 set, simply because the strings just aren't long enough. For example, we all know that installing a solo set at orch pitch is softer -- this chart tells how much softer. Also, it might help in choosing, for example, a different "G" string so it doesn't whang, but is still in the tension ballpark. And now you know just how stark an E stark really is.

Comparative Tensions of Different Sets of Spirocores,
If Each Were Installed on a 3/4 106 cm (41.73 inches)
Mensure Bass at Orchestra Pitch (all in pounds)
Code: 
			G	D	A	E	Total
S42 4/4 Light		55.2	59.3	61.4	63.4	239.3
S42 4/4 Medium		61.4	65.8	69.6	69.6	266.4
S42 4/4 Heavy		73.7	73.7	75.8	77.8	301.0
4/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch	55.3	55.3	55.3	56.9	222.8
3/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch	56.0	57.8	57.8	57.8	229.4
3885 3/4 Light		60.6	61.7	63.9	66.1	252.3
3885 3/4 Medium		67.2	68.3	70.5	72.8	278.8
Click to expand...
 
#12
A friend gave me some Spriocore Mittel to try and I guess they belong to different sets (I don't have the package) but the red part at the bottom of the strings A and G is really close to the bridge, while on the D has more space, that means the D strings is coming from a 4/4 set (S42) and the other are from a 3/4 set?

So I have a 7/8, around 108,5cm, do I have to go for the S42 cause the 3/4 will be too short?
 
#13
It's very common for people to use the 4/4 Spirocores on 3/4 basses. So common in fact that our largest local shop said they don't even carry the 3/4 strings in Mittels. They just put 4/4s on everything.

I've played both on various basses. When I pick up someone else's bass with red/red Spirocores on it, I have no idea if it's the 3/4 or 4/4 set. It's too subtle. I suspect that if I had a brand new set of each and went back and forth between them on my own bass, I would know, but that's what it would take.

Point being I wouldn't overthink it.

With weichs, it's a little different, I wouldn't want them to be any lower tension than they are and if I did, I would use Spirocore Solos, which are great strings too.
 
#14
I compared the 3885.1 3/4 and S42 4/4 G strings and the 3/4 strings are about 6 cm shorter than the 4/4.
My 15 year old S42 E is 168.7 cm (66.2 inches) long.

My bass is 109 cm and was strung initially with S42 by the luthier who build the instrument.
I would never try 3885.1 3/4 on my instrument, even the S42 were hard for me to play for several hours. The 3/4 strings would have even more tension if they fit. But maybe you are better trained than I was.
The 3/4 may fit on a 4-string 109 cm bass, but I'm rather sure they would be a bit too short for my 5-string.
 
#15
AndreaVeneziani said:
A friend gave me some Spriocore Mittel to try and I guess they belong to different sets (I don't have the package) but the red part at the bottom of the strings A and G is really close to the bridge, while on the D has more space, that means the D strings is coming from a 4/4 set (S42) and the other are from a 3/4 set?

So I have a 7/8, around 108,5cm, do I have to go for the S42 cause the 3/4 will be too short?
Click to expand...
Probably, unless your afterlength is really, really short.
 
#17
Yes, a lot of new strings get less stiff after a while. Yes, they loose a bit of tension (due to stretching, some mass vanishes into the peg box) but not much. It's mostly the stiffness that will be reduced with stretching. (The windings will separate from the neighbor in a microscopic measure, so the string can bend more easily and the stiffness is reduced a lot.)

With Spirocore Mittel it can take several weeks, if you don't play much also months until they broke in. The good thing about them is that you can use them for several years. Some players (including me) use them for over ten years.
Bowing helps to break them in a bit quicker.
 
#18
CHART EDITED FOR TYPOS

Code: 
			G	D	A	E
S42 4/4 Light		55.3	59.3	61.4	63.4	239.4
S42 4/4 Medium		61.4	65.5	69.6	69.6	266.1
S42 4/4 Heavy		73.7	73.7	75.8	77.8	301.0
4/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch	50.3	55.3	55.3	55.3	216.2
3/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch	56.0	57.8	57.8	57.8	229.4
3885 3/4 Light		60.6	61.7	63.9	66.1	252.3
3885 3/4 Medium		67.2	68.3	70.5	72.8	278.8
 
#19
Great zombie thread here. I have been loving Spiro Weichs, but as my bass has adjusted to them over the last 6 weeks I have had them on, I have noticed some lack of volume, especially on G and E strings. This bass originally had what I assume were 3/4 mittels (stiff as hell) . These strings were possibly 15 years old or older, as I have had them since high school I think! They have seen a lot of use and still sounded pretty dang good despite being in poor shape. My new hybrid bass was loud as all get out with the 3/4 mittels and was also loud with Velvet compas 180's. I have been considering getting the 3/4 weich set and seeing if that will add some more tension and therefor volume? According to the above, awesome, chart it will add 13 lbs of pressure. Not a huge difference, but maybe it will help. Either that, or I am going to just try the Mittle 4/4 E string as the Weich E is just a little puny on my bass. My luthier lowered the action some and I am just not getting the punch out of the E that I am used to. Sorry to ramble here but I am on the same never ending quest we are all on: to find a string that my left hand can tolerate for the 4 hour jazz gigs I play, that sound full, punchy, bright and loud. The Spiro weichs 4/4 set have gotten me very close, and they bow so amazingly well that I hate to change anything, but the pizz tone is my priority right now...
 
#20
I tried the 3/4 Weich G with the 4/4 Weich D and A and didn't like it, probably because the 3/4 Weich high C had too much tension for the diameter on my instrument, but maybe even the tension of the G didn't fit well (too much). Can't remember exactly. Maybe the 3/4 Solo A (downtuned to G) is a bit better?

I never tried the 3/4 Weich E. I have one, but cut it for use on my Clevinger EUB, so it will no longer fit to my acoustic bass. The 4/4 Mittel E had a bit too much tension for my left hand and also the sound is different from the Weich set, specially if you bow but also when you pizz it.
But since every bass is different (and every players needs also) try them out. Since the E and G are often wound on the lower pegs you won't get any issues with string length that way.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back