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Double Bass 3/4 vs 4/4 gauges- is there a difference?

#21
So I did some work on my bass and reduced string length to 42 1/8". I am now using S42 weich and they sound and feel very nice. The S42 Mittel were too stiff for me and also for the bass, didn't speak well. I am wondering if I can use the 3885 weich now that I have reduced string length, even though is still pretty long. Looking at that chart it seems like a middle way set between S42 weich and S42 mittel, it might sound and feel great if it fits! Wouldn't be the red winding on the afterlenght too close to bridge though?
 
#22
The S42 (Mittel) have almost the same tension than the 3885.0W (3/4 Weich). The sound is different (a Mittel sound, not a Weich sound) and they might be harder to bow than the S42W too.
Better stick to your S42W. You might want to check out the downtuned Spiro Solo 3/4, but the tension on the lower strings is less on the Spiro Solos.

I like the S42W on my 43 1/2" scale acoustic bass much better than the 3885.0W on my 42" scale EUB. THe 3885.0W are too stiff for my taste (they get a bit less stiff over time but not close to the S42W).

Maybe you want to try a 3/4 Weich E and A with the 4/4 Weich D and G if you want some more power on the lower strings?
 
#24
If it sings with the S42 Weich but feels choked with the S42 Mitts, it's anybody's guess what the 3885 3/4 Weich will do.

The catch is that on the used string side, 99 44/100 of the Spiros for sale will be S42 Weich or Mitts; 3885's rarely if ever come up for sale, so if you're wanting to try them, you will most likely have to purchase new.

If you're wanting to go all out and try it, I'd try a 3885.5W 3/4 Weich E string first to see how that does.

The 3885.5W string is larger diameter than the S42W E string, and having had both, I concur it is a bit more "mitt" sound than "weich" sound, which works better on my particular CCB. Your mileage will vary.
 
#26
I'm rather sure the S42W have less tension than the 370TX, but I only tried a high-C 370TX and its tension was somewhere between S42 (Mittel) and S42W (Weich), but closer to the S42 (Mittel) in tension.
But don't take that for granted.
The Corelli strings often (probably all) have less tension on the lower strings than Spirocore orchestral strings. Sometimes even less than on the higher strings of the same set.
If the Corelli work, why changing them? If you want to look for something else to try, why not trying the S42W? They are nice strings, some might want a different G, others don't.
If you want a string that lasts longer than the Corellis try the S42W.
 
#27
looking at the string tension chart from TI, and the chart by iiipopes on page 1 of this thread... i'm trying to ascertain what tension the 4/4 Superflexibles would be at 106 cm, instead of the 110. using iiipope's chart as a model, i'm guessing the tension of the 4/4 Superflexibles would decrease from G 70.6 to about 65.4, same for the D, and the A and E from 75 to 69.6? which is higher tension still on the G than the 3/4 set, slightly lower on the D, slightly higher on the A, and slightly lower on the E. but i could be totally wrong... ??? but isn't that odd?

also, the 4/4 set has same tension of its G and D strings, and the 3/4 set has different tension between its G and D strings. that seems odd too.
 
#28
My rule of thumb is 10% less tension for 5% less length. It could be calculated mre precise, but this is what I can keep in my mind.

I haven't looked into the specifications only talked about what I could remember basically. So if you look into the specs, you will get a more precise image than I gave with my rough hint. And I appreciate that you looked into the specs. Everyone should do it in such a situation.

If you look at baen.tamu.edu/users/rel/personal/BassStrings you can see the tension of the same string on 105 cm and 110 cm. so you can calculate easily the difference in percent. Use 80 % of the difference for the 4 cm instead of 5 cm, it is not really exact but good enough.
 
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#29
DoubleMIDI said:
My rule of thumb is 10% less tension for 5% less length. It could be calculated more precise, but this is what I can keep in my mind.
Click to expand...
Tension varies as the square of the scale length. So, for example, to figure out the difference in tension of a given string between a 106cm (3/4 standard) and 110cm (4/4 standard), if the tension spec is given for the 3/4 length, then the tension at 110 cm will by 110^2/106^2 times the rated tension, and vice versa. With a simple calculator, the math is easy, so why not be more precise?

Remember, these are only guides. "Feel" and other subjective criteria, such as the tone and sustain, arco vs. pizz performance, etc., cannot be had by simply tension. And every string manufacturer must be contacted for silk length, actual speaking length of the string, and the amount of silk leader to make sure it will fit any particular bass.
 
#30
iiipopes said:
Here's a chart that I made up some time ago for comparative tensions if all the Spiro sets were strung on the same mensure 3/4 bass at orchestra pitch:
Click to expand...

iiipopes said:
CHART EDITED FOR TYPOS

Code: 
			G	D	A	E
S42 4/4 Light		55.3	59.3	61.4	63.4	239.4
S42 4/4 Medium		61.4	65.5	69.6	69.6	266.1
S42 4/4 Heavy		73.7	73.7	75.8	77.8	301.0
4/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch	50.3	55.3	55.3	55.3	216.2
3/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch	56.0	57.8	57.8	57.8	229.4
3885 3/4 Light		60.6	61.7	63.9	66.1	252.3
3885 3/4 Medium		67.2	68.3	70.5	72.8	278.8
Click to expand...

Thanks for the chart, iiipopes. It has been a useful aid for me in the pursuit of Spiro happiness, :) and I'm sure for others as well. It might be easier to understand if you could also somehow insert, just for the 4/4 strings, Thomastik's stated tensions at 110 cm mensur. The "tension discount" (number of lbs to be subtracted from Thomastik's stated tensions for 110 cm when stringing a bass with a mensur of 106 cm with 4/4 size Spiros) would be clear from your chart itself, rather than comparing your chart to Thomastik's website. Just my $0.02(110^2/106^2). :-D
 
#31
The tension discount is, as you state, 110^2/106^2, or @ 1.0769. So take my figures, multiply the 4/4 sets by this amount, and you have the 110cm tension.

The T-I bass string catalog has been updated, but only the old version is on line. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you the pdf that T-I sent me. This even includes the new Bel Canto solo set.
 
#32
pm sent. yes, that pdf would be useful to see.

what i meant to say was, your chart would give an even more informative picture if it showed, next to your 4/4 discounted values, Thomastik's stated tensions in brackets, e.g., for the Weich 4/4 G string, "55.3 (59.5)". but your chart is very useful even without that additional item, just a bit more work to the values into context.
 
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#38
William Hoffman said:
What is odd is how Thomastik sized Belcantos. BCs are either 3/4 or solo (no 4/4). But the 3/4 length is stated on the package as being "up to 110 cm", so they will fit a 4/4 bass as well. This does not seem consistent with the Spiro sizing.
Click to expand...
Since Precision, Superflexible, and, indeed Spirocore were introduced, T-I, like the rest of the double bass world, has realized that a "3/4" bass, with an average mensure of 106cm/41 3/4 inches is the defacto standard, and since the strings were made primarily for arco, and since many orchestras have bass players that have basses with mensure longer than that, T-I is trying to market the strings to as broad a range of players as possible.
 
#39
iiipopes said:
Since Precision, Superflexible, and, indeed Spirocore were introduced, T-I, like the rest of the double bass world, has realized that a "3/4" bass, with an average mensure of 106cm/41 3/4 inches is the defacto standard, and since the strings were made primarily for arco, and since many orchestras have bass players that have basses with mensure longer than that, T-I is trying to market the strings to as broad a range of players as possible.
Click to expand...

You've got to be kidding. Thomastik-Infeld, the maker of Spirocores for the last 40+ years, just recently realized that the 3/4 size bass is the standard size, i.e., the size most of us play? Or has the multiple W-M-S offerings in two sizes and various tunings just proved to be too sophisticated for the bass string market? Most of the bass string dealers say -- correctly, as a matter of fact -- that the 4/4 110 cm size strings will work on a 3/4 bass, and I've been buying those for years for use on a 106 cm mensur. Some dealers stock only the 4/4 size, so it would seem for T-I that 4/4 was or became the "default standard" string, the one dealers stock.

When Belcantos came out a few years ago, T-I seems to have made 3/4 (defined as 106 cm mensur) the standard, while the string also fits "up to 110 cm". Probably simplifies string making somehow for T-I. Anyway, clearly a one-size-fits all approach with Belcantos. If less tension is wanted, the solos tuned to orchestra pitch might work.

Well, whatever. I'll bet the extremely wide offering of Spirocore in many sizes and tensions has helped make it one of the best-selling bass strings, or rather the best-selling bass string. For me, I never knew the real fine-tuning you can do with the Thomastik Spirocore string offering until just recently when I found a 4/4 string I liked but wanted just a bit more tension, not enough to switch to Starks. Then I realized seeing your chart (above) that I am not getting the full stated "official" tension of my 4/4 strings when I put them on a 3/4 bass. With the 3/4 strings, I will get actually more tension (even though their stated tension is less than the 4/4).
 
#40
Isn't it the case that most Jazz players use 3/4 basses - whereas in orchestras, they go for bigger basses with more acoustic volume, as Jazz players often amplify?

I saw a performance of a piece written for Dave Holland and orchestra and what struck me was how small his bass looked next to the orchestra basses - but he was amplified and they were not!
 

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