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3-Pc And Smaller Bands Are Awesome For Learning

Apr 11, 2005
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Plymouth NC
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Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
Always loved 3-pc bands with a guitarist, bassist, and drummer. Didn't matter what kind of music it was. Loved everything about them. I played just about anywhere I had a chance when I was a kid, some bands were big, some were small, but my favorite times have been with 3-pc bands with that lineup. I loved the challenge of making music sound full, loved the challenge of everything being exposed to where you had to be right on or it all fell to crap, and when there were holes, the music had to be interesting enough to not make you think too hard about the holes.

Makes you really examine what works best and what doesn't. And it doesn't have to be just guitar bands or rock. I've seen jazz trios with a guitarist, seen them with a horn, bass and drums, anything with sparse instrumentation during solos. Not so much keyboards because they can solo and play rhythm, too. I'd also say the same thing about duos, especially if they're percussion-free. It's an amazing education in seeing how tight you really are! And over the past couple years I've played with a couple small bands, one original instrumental rock, one bluesy folk type stuff, and now one blues and jazz, although the last two aren't always full-time 3-pc since the singer/harp/2nd guitarist isn't always up there.

For that reason, I truly believe that if you take two musicians of pretty equal talent, and one has played in 3-pc bands and smaller but the other hasn't, the one who has will be overall better.

I've known guitarists who really shine with a bigger band who can't play the opening 16th note riff for "Eye Of The Tiger" without flubbing it up. Some of them played it so badly you'd want to drop it because you knew they would never get it. A couple of them have told me, "It's the drummer's job to keep time, not mine."

Meanwhile, the ones who played in 3-pc bands could not only play that riff, but they could play the intro chords and go right back to the riff and never make you think there was a gap in the 16th notes. And when we absolutely had to play "Eye Of The Tiger" with the rough guitarists (hey, it WAS the 80's, you know?), they'd turn to me, 3-Pc Boy, and tell me to play the opening 16th notes. Not a problem, just let me bust out my trusty pick.

TL DR; Musicians get a little too reliant on everyone else sometimes, especially if they never played in small bands or don't do it as much. Bands with sparse instrumentation really force you to be right on the money because there's nowhere to hide, and musicians who do it, especially bassists who play without drummers, are much better off than those who don't.

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The first band I played in was a 3pc, now I'm playing in a 3pc again, first time playing in a band properly for 6 or 7 years at least.

In between I was one half of a guitar+vox and double bass duo. We played together a lot. As much as I love playing with a drummer, it was nice to be providing the rhythm so directly. My good friend on guitar also had great time (undoubtedly better than mine), together we had some really nice, playful contrasting rhythms that filled in the role of the drummer... the ultimate basic simple example would be if the bass it plays 2 beats per bar on 1+3, and guitar strums on 2+4. Very satisfying! We ended up with some really subversive, funny rhythmical things we would chuck in to entertain ourselves (we were often busking 2-3 hours a time, multiple times a week). We developed all of it without talking about it. You play together that much and it just evolves.. good times!



Small ensembles rock... Sorry I can't change your mind..can I have a seat?
 
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The first band I played in was a 3pc, now I'm playing in a 3pc again, first time playing in a band properly for 6 or 7 years at least.

In between I was one half of a guitar+vox and double bass duo. We played together a lot. As much as I love playing with a drummer, it was nice to be providing the rhythm so directly. My good friend on guitar also had great time (undoubtedly better than mine), together we had some really nice, playful contrasting rhythms that filled in the role of the drummer... the ultimate basic simple example would be if the bass it plays 2 beats per bar on 1+3, and guitar strums on 2+4. Very satisfying! We ended up with some really subversive, funny rhythmical things we would chuck in to entertain ourselves (we were often busking 2-3 hours a time, multiple times a week). We developed all of it without talking about it. You play together that much and it just evolves.. good times!

Small ensembles rock... Sorry I can't change your mind..can I have a seat?
Please do! Yes sir, good times. Especially when you know each other well enough to make it interesting.
 
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...

TL DR; Musicians get a little too reliant on everyone else sometimes, especially if they never played in small bands or don't do it as much. Bands with sparse instrumentation really force you to be right on the money because there's nowhere to hide, and musicians who do it, especially bassists who play without drummers, are much better off than those who don't.
...

Agree. You are very exposed in a duo. The light instrumentation exposes every note and nuance - both the deliberate ones and the errors, and timing has to be impeccable. But the sense of responsibility and contribution, coupled with heightened awareness of the whole of the music, is phenomenal. It's not for everyone, but I think everyone should at least give it a try. I played all over with this guy in the 80's...
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Both bands I play in are 3 piece (guitar/bass drums). I play guitar in one and bass in the other. Really forces everyone to step up their game. Both are original projects and we really focus on the writing and arranging.

I especially like it as a bass player. It’s a balancing act between keeping it interesting and holding it down.
 
Both bands I play in are 3 piece (guitar/bass drums). I play guitar in one and bass in the other. Really forces everyone to step up their game. Both are original projects and we really focus on the writing and arranging.

I especially like it as a bass player. It’s a balancing act between keeping it interesting and holding it down.
That leads to a good discussion...one that'll probably end up being the focus...ways to keep it interesting and hold it down, and also ways to fill exposed holes that don't suck.

One thing I like to do when all else fails is just play the same bassline I would play in a bigger band and not change a thing. Let that hole get exposed proudly! Been a winning formula for a lot of bands over the years. I once heard a local 3-pc band when I was 14 play "Shining Star" by Earth, Wind and Fire, no horns, no keys, three voices, and I'm telling you it was just as good as the original as long as you don't worry about missing the big production. All the bass player and drummer did was play the parts.

I also like to have a little octave action at times. Works for King's X and Cheap Trick when Robin Zander isn't playing rhythm. Sometimes I do them the hard way, sometimes I use a pedal. Sometimes I can use an analog octaver to sound a lot like a bass synth. Other pedals can also help, as evidenced by Chris Wolstenholme of Muse and Doug Wimbish with Living Colour. And sometimes they don't work so I skip it.

One thing that usually seems to work pretty well in a rock/pop/dance context is distortion in a couple different yummy flavors from mild to wild. I have done it without distortion successfully, though. All depends on the music and how you play.

And of course, there's the approach pioneered by one John Entwistle...guitar sticks to rhythm while YOU solo! That one's my favorite.
 
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^All good stuff.

I do a lot of little things that build up and then resolve. Sometimes I’ll play passing notes to smooth things out and sometimes I’ll play something that really leaves things hanging until the next chord happens.

Space is also crucial. A lot of my parts have pretty good sized gaps between notes to let other things happen.

Playing two rhythmic feels against each other is something we do a lot too.

In a few song I play pedal tones on an open string while doing something else up higher. Nothing new there, but I try not to overuse it.

The guitar player I play bass with plays tuned down to D and I play bass in standard tuning. He plays a few songs with a second fret capo though. In the band I play guitar in I write EVERYTHING with a capo. I started doing it for vocal range reasons, but not having open strings in common leads to more interesting parts, and having chords happening in a higher register leaves a lot more space for the bass.

I realized pretty early on doing this that my playing needed a lot of cleaning up since it’s so exposed. Controlling how notes sound and how they ring out is something I’m always working on.

Tonally in this context I need the right balance of lows and mids. A lot of high end usually isn’t needed. Just enough harmonic content for the bass to be present.

We do a few select “deep cuts” covers. Usually one per show. In the current rotation are Lucky by Radiohead and The Ones Who Love You by Alvvays. Bass-wise I play a hybrid of the original parts and whatever differences I feel are needed to make it work in the 3 piece context.
 
Longest band tenure for me was in a 3-piece rock band. And, you're right, we played a pretty wide variety of genres without regard. As a bass player, there is ton's of room to fill. I'm not gonna try to change your mind but will offer another perspective.

I took a break for awhile after that band. After a year or so, hooked up with some great musicians in a 4-piece original americana-type rock band. Shorter songs built around the lyric and a good hook. It took me a LOOOONG time to really figure out how to serve the band's music. I started out overplaying everything! Hearkening back to my years of the trio, I was putting notes everywhere! I still have a lot of those basement recordings and listening to the evolution is pretty cool. I came to really respect the drummer, he helped me tremendously, and he was by far the most solid guy I've ever played with. His style was not overly-simple but he made it super easy to find the pocket. That 4 year period was absolutely the best band experience I've had and really helped me grow as a player.
 
Musicians get a little too reliant on everyone else sometimes, especially if they never played in small bands or don't do it as much.

When you narrow the available voices, each one has to really nail their part
This is the reason I adhere to metronome practice when really learning a song.
Drum machines, backing tracks, and bands can cover so many small errors.
Alone with a metronome, I can groove, but I really have to master the execution to do so.
 
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First band I was in was a 3 pc (originals). The guitarist/vocalist loved his guitar solos so I had to make sure I was locked in and playing something relatively interesting, even if it was simple. I learned sooooooooo much from it. I am glad to look back at the fact no other guitar player would work with the lead guy so it was always trio lol

Also helped that the drummer was like a metronome. This is one reason he is still my drummer today (covers)
 
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Didn't get to post much today but I did read your stuff and enjoyed it. Good tips and good stories. I really thought I'd have at least one person say I was out to lunch, and I often am, but apparently not about this. Got a quick discussion question...

Do you think drummers get any extra benefit from playing with small bands that they wouldn't get otherwise?

Can't speak on it with any authority. I used to play drums and wasn't horrible, but by the time I was putting bands together, I played guitar and bass, so aside from a few sit-ins occasionally, I haven't done much drumming. But I'd think that it really doesn't matter what size ensemble they play with. I can't recall a drummer I ever worked with changing their parts to suit a 3-pc band or vice versa, and it seems to me like they have the same amount of workload and responsibility. But if any of you are drummers who actually kept up with it and played drums in bands, share your insight.
 
...Got a quick discussion question...

Do you think drummers get any extra benefit from playing with small bands that they wouldn't get otherwise?
...

There is no reason to think otherwise. Just as with bass players, any inconsistencies and errors are very much exposed in smaller groups, so the need for full attention exists for drummers just as it does for everyone else. Plus nuanced playing can actually be heard and can really raise the quality bar, so the opportunities to develop musicianship are just as real for drummers as they are for anyone else in the small ensemble.
 
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There is no reason to think otherwise. Just as with bass players, any inconsistencies and errors are very much exposed in smaller groups, so the need for full attention exists for drummers exists just as it does for everyone else. Plus nuanced playing can actually be heard and can really raise the quality bar, so the opportunities to develop musicianship are just as real for drummers as they are for anyone else in the small ensemble.
I could see that. Food for thought. Very good, Steve.
 
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I could see that. Food for thought. Very good, Steve.

When I was writing my last post, it crossed my mind that playing in a small group might offer drummers the chance to learn to STFU, but then I thought of all those rock trios where that clearly never happened - The Experience, The Police, The Jam, Cream, Rush, ELP to name a few - and my argument just evaporated...
 
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nobody wants to change my mind?
wouldn't try: i agree with you because that's been my experience as a bass player.

although i play in a couple of larger ensembles at present (7pc., 9pc.) i 'grew up' (20 years) playing in a jazz trio. it was a piano trio but the experience was as you describe. "tight" was the first requirement as well as the end result. i've played in several organized guitar trios (jazz) as well, and IME: there's really no difference. if you want to know what the other cats are thinking = play in a trio! you'll know how they think, how they hear, and how they breathe, literally. in a competent trio: it's easy to get lost in the lack of separation between the instruments! everyone ends up playing to the benefit of the whole. nothing like it.

Do you think drummers get any extra benefit from playing with small bands that they wouldn't get otherwise?
yes, for the reasons i implied, above. also: i can almost instantly tell the difference between drummers who have had the small ensemble experience (ingrained) and those who haven't. trio educated cats play with less 'compulsion' and more finesse (ears), IME. they know more 'tricks' and they aren't afraid of subtlety...they rely on it.
 
I’ve played drums in two three piece bands, one of which added a second guitar midway through my time as the drummer. It definitely changed the feel a lot.

I think the same general ideas apply to drums that do to bass. You have to both be super-solid and do interesting things that serve the song. I love the things that can be done with dynamics in a small band.
 
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