Double Bass 4 stringers, why not go 5? .......DB and EUB only

[brianrost]

Has anyone mentioned the expense?

DB strings cost $$$ and a low B will cost more than a E string. Anyway, if we're paying $100-200 for a set of 4 strings, expect that to jump by 25% or more.

Not many 5 string DBs on the market, so you may end up with a custom build or modification to a 4. More $$$$$. You'll need wider fingerboard, wider bridge, larger prgbox to fit the extra tuning machine, etc. Sure a fingerboard will last decades with proper maintenance but bridges get replaced more often...will finding wide blanks be a problem?

In the EUB world it's easy to get 5s off the rack but you still have the string expenses.

Has anyone ever priced a custom 5er from Upton, New Standard or other builders?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The cost of a low B string is above 33% of the set for a cheap one and around 50% of most other sets (and you can find more expensive ones).

But you don't need to change them too often if you use a Spiro or something similar ...

 

[Jon Moody]

Yeah, when I got my CR5-M, I luckily had an old set of Spirocores that I could put on it, and only had to buy the low B string, which I think was $90. If I didn't have that other set already, I think it would've been over $200.

The downside is that, for many EUBs, the options for strings are either expensive (because you're using upright string) or very limited (the NS has only previously had two sets made for it). Thankfully, at least for the NS players, there's a new option.

 

[Feral Feline]

Has anyone mentioned the expense?

DB strings cost $$$ and a low B will cost more than a E string. Anyway, if we're paying $100-200 for a set of 4 strings, expect that to jump by 25% or more.

Not many 5 string DBs on the market, so you may end up with a custom build or modification to a 4. More $$$$$. You'll need wider fingerboard, wider bridge, larger prgbox to fit the extra tuning machine, etc. Sure a fingerboard will last decades with proper maintenance but bridges get replaced more often...will finding wide blanks be a problem?

In the EUB world it's easy to get 5s off the rack but you still have the string expenses.

Has anyone ever priced a custom 5er from Upton, New Standard or other builders?

Excellent points. How many string manufacturers out there produce the 5th string for all the types/models of string sets they produce? For example, on the BG side, basses that have extra long scale length/mensur ie more than 34" can be difficult to find the desired string type. Flats for a Dingwall 37"?

In my perusal of String Maker's websites, I don't recall seeing a lot of 5-string sets. However, I suppose there could be mixing and matching from solo sets etc. For curiosity's sake, I'll have to go back to those stringy websites and see what's available for 5...

 

[Jon Moody]

Excellent points. How many string manufacturers out there produce the 5th string for all the types/models of string sets they produce? For example, on the BG side, basses that have extra long scale length/mensur ie more than 34" can be difficult to find the desired string type. Flats for a Dingwall 37"?

Dingwall is the exception. For the past 10+ years, the 35" scale EB has become pretty commonplace, so finding a set of strings that will fit it isn't that hard.

The problem is when you get a bass like the Hofner Beatle Bass or Fender Mustang. Both are 30" scale instruments, but given where the bridge is, require a medium scale set of strings; standard short scale just won't work.

In my perusal of String Maker's websites, I don't recall seeing a lot of 5-string sets. However, I suppose there could be mixing and matching from solo sets etc. For curiosity's sake, I'll have to go back to those stringy websites and see what's available for 5...

String makers are going to package what sells, and that usually means what dealers will stock, which is why there's probably a lot more 4 string sets. And especially in the case of the DB or EUB, there aren't a whole lot of 5 strings out there, being used so the string companies save money by offering a 4 string set (because EVERYONE will need that) and then having the 5th string as an add-on.

 

[bobsax]

I had considered buying a 5-or-more stringer since I picked up the upright. Many people whose opinion I respected discouraged me. Probably best summed up by my luthier who said: *it's awkward to reach around that extra string and it makes the neck very wide, plus a low-B it not very useful and kind of floppy.

I have purchased a 5-string EUB and my experience is that it took me a fair amount of time to not confuse the B string with the E string when I look at the neck. I think I find it useful to have, but not a category killer. Would I buy another 5-stringer? Probably not because IMO it's not worth the extra hassle or expense for the occasional low-Eb or added flexibility to reach a low note in the middle of the fingerboard without having to travel all the way back to the nut.

I played my 5 string for the first time with a gypsy jazz/blugrass group and the extra low notes were interesting.
I think it would take awhile to really be comfortable in a jazz situation where you play with a lot of open strings, however if you play up the neck and use the B string for say the low E. You have a pretty wide range of notes all in the same position.
I was fooling around with the some simple salsa (I,VI,V) lines and it was very easy with the action set low.

I have both a 5 string DB and EDB, with high C strings. The fingerboards are identical in width to my 4 string.

Some people may not like the feeling of the strings being so close to the edge of the fingerboard. To help with the bowing clearance, you'll definitely want to avoid flatter fingerboards, and the action will need to be consistent to get an even clearance from string to string.

Very long and thin metallic strings give a distinct sound. My spiro mittel high C is thinner than cello strings, and so there is a special touch when it comes to pizz and arco. Probably not the best choice for a thumpy tone. The arco however is extremely clear and delivers a brilliant tone.

I just measured my low B slab BSXAllegro and the fingerboard is 1/2 inch wider then my Shen DB at the bottom. (4.1/8 inchs)
Perhaps high C 5 string fingerboards can be the same width as 4 string?
On the Allegro even with the extra width the b and E are a little closer to each other.

Does anybody know if the 5 string Eminence has a wider fingerboard?

 

[Roy Vogt]

Strictly a cost issue for me. From what I understand a lot of European Orchestral Bassists use 5 strings. I was totally aware of Eberhard's 5 (a rebuilt Framus with a high C when I saw him in 1982). I have a nice Carruthers SUB-1 and good Double Bass and while I'd love to have a 5 (I've played a 5 string Pollman that was amazing!) DB or EUB little things like the house payment keep interfering.

 

[mattj1stc]

I have an NS NXT 5. I came over from bass guitar, so I was already used to playing a 5 string. To me, it seemed relatively low risk to go with a 5 in EUB. I can see that a 5 string acoustic upright might not be loud enough for the B string, but that's not an issue with an EUB, which is made to be amplified. Similarly, the biggest drawback to a 5 string bass guitar is the floppiness of the B string, but this is due to the short scale length. With an EUB, you have a full upright scale to work with. Basically, I would argue that an EUB is probably the best case scenario for a B string - you have a long scale length and amplification. Just my own experience.

 

[Shedua511]

As mentioned above, the 5-string is pretty much standard in European orchestras.
My acoustic is a 4-string, but I would love to have a 5-string (I tried one in Rome last time I visited that I loved... if I only had 5000 euro to spend!).
I have a 5-string NS and a 6 string Alter Ego: the long scale makes for an extremely usable and integrated low B, I love it and producers do too.

 

[bobsax]

I have an NS NXT 5. I came over from bass guitar, so I was already used to playing a 5 string. To me, it seemed relatively low risk to go with a 5 in EUB. I can see that a 5 string acoustic upright might not be loud enough for the B string, but that's not an issue with an EUB, which is made to be amplified. Similarly, the biggest drawback to a 5 string bass guitar is the floppiness of the B string, but this is due to the short scale length. With an EUB, you have a full upright scale to work with. Basically, I would argue that an EUB is probably the best case scenario for a B string - you have a long scale length and amplification. Just my own experience.

Really good points Matt. My low B slab sounds like a bass guitar but floppiness is not an issue.

As mentioned above, the 5-string is pretty much standard in European orchestras.
My acoustic is a 4-string, but I would love to have a 5-string (I tried one in Rome last time I visited that I loved... if I only had 5000 euro to spend!).
I have a 5-string NS and a 6 string Alter Ego: the long scale makes for an extremely usable and integrated low B, I love it and producers do too.

Very interesting. I imagine a section of DB's all playing arco on a low B sounds pretty powerful.

Do they ever use it for Pizz? Like Matt I wonder if it's loud enough for an un-amplified acoustic setting.

 

[josiah goldfish]

Has anyone mentioned the expense?

DB strings cost $$$ and a low B will cost more than a E string. Anyway, if we're paying $100-200 for a set of 4 strings, expect that to jump by 25% or more.

Not many 5 string DBs on the market, so you may end up with a custom build or modification to a 4. More $$$$$. You'll need wider fingerboard, wider bridge, larger prgbox to fit the extra tuning machine, etc. Sure a fingerboard will last decades with proper maintenance but bridges get replaced more often...will finding wide blanks be a problem?

In the EUB world it's easy to get 5s off the rack but you still have the string expenses.

Has anyone ever priced a custom 5er from Upton, New Standard or other builders?

My teacher's got two Bryant custom 5ers. The bridge is the same as a four.

Your comment about there being less 5-string basses is true, but you'd be surprised how many there are. Check out some of the very old basses, a lot are 5-strings. I keep seeing really nice basses and thinking 'hmm, someday I could put down my first payment on that' then I look again and, oh, it's a 5-string! Actually I couldn't afford it anyway, but I like old instruments

I play 4-strings because I don't want another string. It's hard enough navigating 4 musically!

Also, double bass low B's often sound 'meh' and they change the tone of the E string to an extent. I like being able to pluck off the edge of the fingerboard too, on the E string.

Joe

 

[bobsax]

I got my 5 string Allegro slab almost 3 years ago and mostly used it for travel and practice to keep my chops up but I didn't really use the B that much.
I wanted to get a hollow body EUB and couldn't decide if I wanted a 5 or a 4 so I spent the last couple months playing it a lot and really using the B string.

So I was used to feeling the initial awkwardness adjusting to the 5th string after playing DB but I wasn't expecting the DB to feel awkward after playing the 5 string EUB. I kept going for a string that wasn't there and sometimes mistaking the E for a B and going up two strings instead of one. I hit a quite a few F's instead of C's on my first time back on the double bass.

My friends and fellow band mates all cut me a certain amount of slack when I played the 5 string but they expect me to hit the right notes when I play the acoustic.

From now on I'm strictly a 4 Stringer.
I just ordered a new hallow body Allegro 4 string and the 5 will be up in the classifieds soon.

 

[John Burgess]

I just measured my low B slab BSXAllegro and the fingerboard is 1/2 inch wider then my Shen DB at the bottom. (4.1/8 inchs)
Perhaps high C 5 string fingerboards can be the same width as 4 string?
On the Allegro even with the extra width the b and E are a little closer to each other.

Does anybody know if the 5 string Eminence has a wider fingerboard?

With the 5 string acoustic, I doubt it was specifically designed around having a high string, probably a low B for orchestral use. I prefer the strings closer together, but it would definitely pose some challenges in an orchestral setup. The more bow hair deflection and string deflection, the more difficult it will be to bow a single string. Therefore string choices will need to be considered.

The other factor is that I find I naturally bow closer to the bridge with thinner gauge strings in order to produce a clearer sound. That reduces string deflection. When you change the tool you naturally use it in a different way, which produces a different end result.

 

[Kmonk]

I own 4 and 5 string basses but find myself playing 4 much more often. A 5 string does give you options in terms of playing position but it only gives you 5 lower notes than a 4. The issue I have with most 5 string players is that they over use the Low B and end up with a muddy sound. I saw a Bad Company Tribute band where the bass player was playing 5. He was constantly on the B string even though in Boz Burrell's bass lines, he usually played an octave higher.

 

[nysbob]

Basically, I would argue that an EUB is probably the best case scenario for a B string - you have a long scale length and amplification. Just my own experience.

My thinking exactly. I played 4 string bass guitars and uprights forever, never owned a 5, but when the time came to order up my EUB I figured why not take advantage of that long scale? I'm glad I did. Link Removed