heath_the_great said:
Sounds like you took it literally too
You can use the same hand positions on a five as a four. Trust me. You can work as hard as you want or not. It's allowed.
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4 vs. 5 String
- Thread starter Bain
- Start date
Sounds like you took it literally too
You can use the same hand positions on a five as a four. Trust me. You can work as hard as you want or not. It's allowed.
Knavery said:
Might've gotten different results with a different five. Different neck profile, different spacing, etc. They're out there.
Well I find that the more I play my 5 the more I'm starting to like it. I always thought I'd be a 4 stringer, and never really saw myself playing a 5.
I read something from Gard on here where he talked about hitting a low C on a Ballad. I found a song I liked in C Faith Hill's Home is his Castle...I was able to play it in first position then up in 6th postion. Then for the last note of the song I would slide down to the Low C and IMO I thought it sounded pretty cool.
In a country band I was in when we would play some songs I wish I had a extra string, so I could go down instead of up all the time.
But with me thier is no telling I might be back to my 4 string tomorrow.
I read something from Gard on here where he talked about hitting a low C on a Ballad. I found a song I liked in C Faith Hill's Home is his Castle...I was able to play it in first position then up in 6th postion. Then for the last note of the song I would slide down to the Low C and IMO I thought it sounded pretty cool.
In a country band I was in when we would play some songs I wish I had a extra string, so I could go down instead of up all the time.
But with me thier is no telling I might be back to my 4 string tomorrow.
Well maybe he just doesn't want to play a 5. I know it's hard to believe, but trust me...there ARE bass players out there who tried 5's and 6's and don't like them. Trying to make it a technique issue is not only unfair but it's quite often wrong.Brad Johnson said:
Brad Johnson said:
+1
My fingers are very short, and I can play a six, as long as it has a thin neck profile.
Our own john turner has small hands, and plays 7 and 8 strings.
I have always thought that Il be a 4 stringer forever, after trying a 5 ages ago and not finding it comfortable. However Ive been forced into playing a mates 5 while my 4 is in repairs and Im getting used to it to a point where Im considering buying a 5 string as my next axe. I hate tuning during a gig
JimmyM said:
Maybe I should've used even more "MAYBE's" in my post than I clearly did. Did yoiu miss them?
Maybe you should let him decide... that's who my post was directed at.
There are definitely players who have tried them and not liked them, no doubt. There are just as definitely many who never figured out what to do with them technique-wise, especially dealing with the potential string spacing and neck width issues. So they stopped trying. The same is true for working with different scale lengths. The fact ius, there are simple TECHNIQUE things that can be done that can make all of these things easier to deal with and as such can make playing even more fun. Not for everyone obviously.
If someone just doesn't want to deal with it, cool. My suggestion/question was directed towards someone who might have more of an open mind about it. Small hands has little to do with it. It's all about intent. Until his accident, Anthony Jackson, not known for his stature or large hands, played a 36" scale Fodera with very wide spacing and played it well. The point is, don't AUTOMATICALLY think that something like that is anything more than a minor obstacle to get over. Heck, learning to play period is more of an obstacle.
If that's unfair, so be it. For the people who WANT to explore new things, there's hope. That's my point. For those that don't... no problem, wasn't talking to you
embellisher said:
Exactly. Sometimes the fix is something as simple as wearing the instrument at a different height or angle, being more cognizant of thumb placement on your fretting hand (makes a HUGE difference when tackling wider necks) or watching your right hand techniques to allow for easy plucking AND using both hands for muting purposes.
Surprisingly enough, there are some things that are just easier to do on a 4+ string bass... like playing chords that span 5 or six strings.
There is no reason this has to be an either or proposition... you don't have to choose between one or the other. They're all tools and all have their place.
I play a five when I need to play in Eb, as Embellisher said. Recently I have shifted to a four, and a short scale to boot, because I am old and tired and play endless swings and shuffles. After two solid hours of fast paced walking on my 36" five string my hand is ready to drop off.
Actually, for the past few weeks I have been using a 1966 P bass which is just.........
.....Mmmmmm......(closes eyes and drools).
Actually, for the past few weeks I have been using a 1966 P bass which is just.........
.....Mmmmmm......(closes eyes and drools).
I switched from 4 to 5 when I figured out that the low E was generally much used in music and that an open string does not sound as deep as a fretted note (unless you have a zero fret, which is not that common).
Also, being able to go down to lower notes is more and more useful everyday, since nowadays modern music uses that range of notes pretty much.
I also guess I am now fully converted to 5, since I tried to switch back to 4 recently and could not. Felt like missing something with the 4er.
Cheers,
Jay
Also, being able to go down to lower notes is more and more useful everyday, since nowadays modern music uses that range of notes pretty much.
I also guess I am now fully converted to 5, since I tried to switch back to 4 recently and could not. Felt like missing something with the 4er.
Cheers,
Jay
Brad Johnson said:Maybe I should've used even more "MAYBE's" in my post than I clearly did. Did yoiu miss them?
Maybe you should let him decide... that's who my post was directed at.
There are definitely players who have tried them and not liked them, no doubt. There are just as definitely many who never figured out what to do with them technique-wise, especially dealing with the potential string spacing and neck width issues. So they stopped trying. The same is true for working with different scale lengths. The fact ius, there are simple TECHNIQUE things that can be done that can make all of these things easier to deal with and as such can make playing even more fun. Not for everyone obviously.
If someone just doesn't want to deal with it, cool. My suggestion/question was directed towards someone who might have more of an open mind about it. Small hands has little to do with it. It's all about intent. Until his accident, Anthony Jackson, not known for his stature or large hands, played a 36" scale Fodera with very wide spacing and played it well. The point is, don't AUTOMATICALLY think that something like that is anything more than a minor obstacle to get over. Heck, learning to play period is more of an obstacle.
If that's unfair, so be it. For the people who WANT to explore new things, there's hope. That's my point. For those that don't... no problem, wasn't talking to you
To answer your question as it WAS directed at me, it's a matter of personal preference. I understand where you're coming from, but as I said before, I played 5-string basses for several years before switching to 4-string. And it is a bit unfair to even propose that my personal preference is based on bad technique. Perhaps my technique does not fit in the style of 5-string basses. Different techniques are applied by all different players, which are learned through teachers, and influences. No one person's technique is the same as anyone elses. For me, I just prefer 4-string basses, and am willing to bet that I can play with the best of 'em--being 5 string players.
embellisher said:
I don't think it matters much at that point. Everyone's hands are small on an 8 string!
I've never really understood all the complaints about floppy B strings. I personally don't mind it that way. The heaviest B I ever use is 0.125 (often lighter). Maybe it's because I can string my Zon with any gauge and it sounds great. Maybe also cause I don't mind some string noise, and i love the way less tension feels. I guess it does take a little adjusting technique-wise, but it's no big deal. It's also nice to have lighter strings on to mess with tunings.
Knavery said:
Nothin' wrong w/ a 4-string folks! Ya know that e string can be tuned down a bit too - which works just fine in most situations (all strings can be tuned down, as mentioned). You younger folks need to remember some of us played for 10, 15, 25 years before ever seeing/playing a 5-string in a store.
All the reason above for playing 5's are valid and I play some of both, but i must admit a 4-string will probably always seem like the standard bass to me.
As for higher strings, I have no use for them though a 2 octave neck is nice to have.
Knavery said:
I didn't propose that your preference was based on bad technique... how did you get that from what I said?
As YOU just said, PERHAPS your technique doesn't fit in the style of a five string, MAYBE a technique change MIGHT make you feel differently about them.
As far as your ability to play with the best of 5 string players on a 4, if that was your point, there are some things that are very easy on a 5 while they're a bitch on a 4, like CERTAIN chords and position shifts that don't need to be made on the 5 to accomplish the same thing.
I don't care what anyone else plays, what I'm offering is suggestions to people in general who may actually WANT to do other things and have run into roadblocks. The advice to some is likely worth what it costs
A lot of valid points in favor of 5 strings, but the comfort of the neck of a 4 strings works best to me.
My main bass used to be a 5, but I'm back to 4 now. I play blues and classic rock mainly and in that style of music I don't feel a need for the extra note. It is true also that I have never played downtuned.
Of course it is only me.
My main bass used to be a 5, but I'm back to 4 now. I play blues and classic rock mainly and in that style of music I don't feel a need for the extra note. It is true also that I have never played downtuned.
Of course it is only me.
Brad Johnson said:I didn't propose that your preference was based on bad technique... how did you get that from what I said?
As YOU just said, PERHAPS your technique doesn't fit in the style of a five string, MAYBE a technique change MIGHT make you feel differently about them.
As far as your ability to play with the best of 5 string players on a 4, if that was your point, there are some things that are very easy on a 5 while they're a bitch on a 4, like CERTAIN chords and position shifts that don't need to be made on the 5 to accomplish the same thing.
I don't care what anyone else plays, what I'm offering is suggestions to people in general who may actually WANT to do other things and have run into roadblocks. The advice to some is likely worth what it costs
I won't argue about the difficulty it is on a 4-string to pull off many of the chord voicings and position shifts. I agree with you there, but I am happy with my technique -- for now. Perhaps later on I will switch back to a 5-string when I'd like to encorporate different playing techniques into my repertoire that would require one, or at the very least, would be easier on one.
While I respect your opinion, you do seem to emit an air of condescension towards 4-string players. I apologize if I'm off the mark here, but I started out on guitar 15 years ago. I've played 6, 7, and 12-string guitars, as well as 5-string basses before switching to 4. Believe me, you get out of them what you put into them. Nothing more...Nothing less. I just hope that 4-string players aren't talked into something that they aren't comfortable with, because they're told it's going to make them better players. That's hogwash.
Bassosaurus said:
I hear you. I played 4 string for 15+ years before I got my first 5 string. It was neck heavy, had a clublike neck, and sounded terrible. It nearly ruined my left hand and wrist. It got to the point where I was in pain for 2 or 3 days after a 2 hour rehearsal.
I finally sold it, figuring that my hands were just too small for a 5 or 6 string.
A few years later, Guitar Center had an Ibanez 6 string at a price that was far below what anybody had sold a six for up until then. I went and played it, and GAS set in. This bass did not hurt my arm or wrist! It had a slim neck profile, and was perfectly balanced.
It wasn't me, it was the bass! Once I had played more ergonomic 5 and 6 stringers, I realized that I could have the extended range, if I bought the right bass.
My point? Some guys who are convinced that anything more than a 4 is out of their comfort zone just haven't played the right bass.
I have been playing for over 25 years. More than half of that on a four. I still play my fours on occasion, I played my $99 SX for a dozen or so songs with my oldies band this past weekend. But the flexibility and range that I can get with my fives and sixes is something that I can't live without.
Great post Jeff ! There are so many great 5 and 6 string basses on the market , you'll just have to try a few basses and find something that you like 
Not that I believe our friend Mr. Johnson needs anyone to defend him (he's proven most capable of that on his ownKnavery said:
), but based on what I've read posted on TB by Brad I don't remember him ever disparaging any bass or player strictly on the basis of the # of strings that bass has. I don't believe there is any right or wrong regarding string count. If 4 is working well for you, great! And if a higher number of strings is your preference, also great! Rocco has put out more groove with 4 strings than I could ever produce in a lifetime of 5+ string playing.
That said, if some players like the idea of additional range but are having technique issues adjusting to the instrument, then much of what is posted does indeed have merit. I personally have found many of the ideas, suggestions and thoughts extremely helpful as I progressed from a 4 to a 5, then 6 and finally a 7 .......
Knavery said:
I play four strings so yes, you're way off the mark. I don't look down on them, I own several and gig with them often.
I still haven't figured out why some want to take nothing more than an effort to help as condescension instead. What part exactly did you find condescending?
Again, I'm not trying to talk anyone "into" anything, I really don't care what anyone other than myself plays. I do know for a fact that I've helped many folks who've had the same issues described by many whenever the subject is broached. I usually have much better luck in person... somehow people don't tend to think I'm talking down to them or trying to trick them. For instance, I have a friend who was ready to get rid of his Roscoe Beck, even though it was an excellent bass according to him, because it hurt his (fretting) wrist. I asked him to let me see HOW he was playing it, I was curious as to what would cause the pain (I've never had any wrist issues and I was merely curious) As soon as he started playing I saw the likely problem... he was holding the bass almost completely horizontal and it was forcing his wrist into an unnatural position. I suggested he raise the headstock up and instantly the problem was solved.
There are things that I learned the hard way over the years that I would've loved for someone, anyone, who's run into the same obstacles to give me a hand with. That's why I do this.
In any event, feel free to ignore whatever I said that gave you the negative impression of what I'm talking about. Again, for anyone who doesn't mind another set of eyes on their situation, I'm more than happy to do whatever I can.
